I’d like to add a PCC to the collection sooner rather than later and I’d also like to start buying magazines to stock up. I haven’t started that because I can’t figure out which PCC to buy.
I think I’ve narrowed it down to the two in the title - either an MP5 clone, specifically the PTR 9C due to a price point I can swing, the integrated rail for a red dot which I will be using and the upgraded handguard. The GHM-9 is the other contender, I like the controls on the GHM9 better but I am concerned about the longevity of the magazines.
Either of these guns would be SBRed and wear a red dot and suppressor 100% of the time. For various reasons I’ve ruled out guns like the MPX, Stribog and AR-9; the Scorpion is still in the back of my mind but it’s a very distant third to the two above.
Anything I should know about PTR’s MP5 clone? Are magazines (breaking feed lips) really an issue with the B&T guns?
I have a GHM9 for almost 3 years now and never had issues with the B&T mags. I also have a TP9 and APC9 that use same mags and no issues as well. My GHM9 is Gen 1 with updated feed ramp so no issues feeding HP ammo. I live in a no suppressor state so I can’t comment on how it shoots suppressed.
I have a TP9. The magazines look great plus I like the idea of being able to use them in other firearms. I also have a first generation Stribog. It’s had absolutely no issues at all and its magazines look great too.
I had a Scorpion and it while it worked it just felt cheap to me. Upgraded to an APC9k Pro with the Glock lower, and now I can use the same magazines I use for my carry gun.
Of those two options I’d probably go with the B&T.
I might be 100% wrong here, and these are just my own personal biases talking…but I sort of don’t totally feel like PTR’s products are really “serious use” guns. I’ve just always gotten the impression they are more kinda “hobby clones” for people who just want something that looks like an HK but don’t actually care about HK QC and durability. Again I might be way off the mark in that assessment.
In any case, not getting a PCC has been one of my big gun-related regrets. I am still thinking I may get one if I get a chance, despite the fact that another 9mm eater is really going to be hard to feed right now. I’ve mostly been leaning toward the CZ Scorpion, but lately have been thinking hard about the Glock mag variant of the GHM9. The B&T’s price kinda gives me pause though, but I pretty much hear nothing but good things about their products.
I hear a ton of praise for the Scorpion too, but it’s bit bulkier than the GHM9.
The price is definitely tough to swallow, but my B&T APC9k is better than my scorpion was in every way. I had the Scorpion micro, so I wouldn’t consider it especially bulky but it needs so many upgrades for it to be really usable. After changing the grip, the trigger, the charging handle, the safety levers, the magazine release, and the rail the price difference isn’t as substantial and you still have a much lower quality item. The all plastic receiver also doesn’t handle kabooms very well either, and those seemed to be more common than I’ve seen with other firearms.
I may own several, maybe more, PCCs… Including from the gents in Thun. Either are good choices, but…
The MP5 platform is still the measurement for all the rest of quasi sub guns.
The magazine is absolutely the best of all platforms mentioned in this thread. The only better mag by reputation is the Sterling. B&T’s magazines cost like H&K with none of the excellence. I had a plastic magazine crack and B&T USA was pretty timely in replacing it.
The MP5 ergonomics and trigger are decidedly Germanic circa 1960, e.g. designed to fit the Hitler Youth. That may or may not not work for you. The GHM is 50 years newer on both counts, but the ergonomics aren’t dramatically better for me. The B&T is going to have a better trigger than a MP5 in almost every case.
I will take roller locking over blowback any day, no matter the supposed refinement. My experience with pure blowback in very cold climes is negative, so roller lock wins for me. YMMV.
If I could pick any PCC to have, an SBR’d HK SP5/SP5K (although I think my preference would be the full size) would definitely be my first pick. I have been infatuated with the MP5 since I was a teenager, well before I actually got to fire one. Once I shot one, I was super-hooked. Sadly the pricetag means I’ll likely never have one. Even the very pricey GHM9, at $1500-$1600 is like less than half what the HK costs.
Honestly at this rate, it’s more likely that society will collapse and I’ll be able to get ahold of an actual battlefield pickup select-fire MP5 in some Mad Max hellscape future, than it is that I’ll ever buy an SP5.
Blowback is crap. Regardless of whether or not it has a hydraulic buffer.
In 2021 we should have a system more refined than simple blowback. Yes, it works but there are other, better options out there that work too. Then again, the simplicity of blowback is sometimes attractive, pending adding a suppressor or being OK with the gun recoiling like a .308.
Between the two, I would go with the GHM9 only because its simple, the price point is nice and the system has a pretty large following regarding brace/stock options. Additionally, should you fancy it, you can go ahead and add a scorpion magazine ready lower from Lingle Industries once its released. That alone is SUPER attractive to me as the scorpion magazine is largely regarded as one of the best PCC options these days.
Price is mostly why I never gave the MPX much thought. Plus aren’t the magazines like stupid expensive too? I’m a guy who likes to have at least 10+ mags per gun.
Even the pretty pricey GHM9 is still cheaper than the MPX and the Glock lower variant at least uses a mag I already have a literal pile of.
Everything you said is absolutely right on the money, har, pun intended.
Having said that, if you really want a PCC that will perform, the MPX is where you want to be. This thing shoots like nothing else i’ve ever shot and i’ve got a fair amount of experience with the mp5 platform which is arguably the “best” shooting 9mm platform out there.
My 4.5 inch MPX with a nested Dead Air Wolfman is so soft shooting that sometimes I wonder if the damn gun is malfunctioning. Besides issues with the factory Timney trigger, the gun has been absolutely 100% reliable in ALOT of rounds. The Timney trigger has since been replaced and this thing just chugs along and eats anything.
The only real downside to the mpx is the weight, the relative large size of it and the fact that the whole package is somewhat expensive. Magazines can be found for 55 dollars a piece.
If you can get past all of that, seriously man, the gun is an absurd amount of fun. If you’ve never shot one you really need to find one and give it a whirl.
I don’t doubt it’s a great gun, I have heard that a lot. It’s just too expensive. As in, I literally can’t afford one, just like with the SP5, which I would buy in a second if I had the funds to spend.
Something that takes Glock mags would be nice, which is why I have been kinda toying with getting that version of the GHM9. But that’s still a lot of money for me. Honestly though it’s probably going to be either Scorpion or Stribog for me and even then I’ll still probably have to put the thing on layaway. Although I better make the decision soon so I can start buying mags in advance of when I actually get the gun in hand.
Just a regular old “MP5A2” style SP5 SBR would be my dream PCC. When I was a teenager I was really enamored with the “K” but as I grew up I kinda shifted my interest more toward the standard length model, and that being the variant I’ve actually fired probably helped that as well.
I’m kind of eying a PCC for actual practical purposes though - namely indoor HD to mostly supplant the 5.56 AR that currently fills that role - so my decision making process is kind of more rooted in trying to strike the right balance between affordability and quality/track record.
The K is neat but I didn’t like it. Not sure why. Maybe if I could have suppressed it (the PDW version accepts this) I would have kept it. It would be a great HD gun
If I had a K I’d want the shoulder rig setup…just ‘cuz… From what I’ve seen the rigs can be used with a full sized MP5 also…but it’s just not the same, heh.
I’d also honestly like a SBR clone of a Colt 635 or the newer 6991/991. Although while I don’t really hear much bad about Colts 9mm SMGs and carbines I also kind of get the impression they aren’t quite as good as the competition either. The story is that Colt never really invested a lot of effort into totally developing and perfecting the design.
Reality is steering my choice toward the CZ Scorpion though.
Thanks for the info guys; I’ve decided to wait to see if I can find an SP5 at MSRP, I think long term I’d be happier with the genuine article. I found one for $4000 but it just isn’t worth that to me, if I never get one it isn’t the end of the world.
There is nothing wrong with the Colt 9mm beyond the fact that roller locked will always be smoother than blowback and MP5 magazines are vastly superior to Uzi type magazines.
The K/PDW doesn’t buy you much that a full size MP5 won’t do. Shoulder rigs are cool until you realize 15 rd. magazines suck. The K/PDW has a stronger recoil spring so charging the weapon isn’t as smooth as “palm and slap” like with the full size MP5. Not dramatic, but noticeable. Now that B&T makes a side folding stock for the MP5 the K/PDW gives up much of the advantage over a standard MP5.
The only real benefit is if you are trying to pack into an aircraft cockpit or something where a full size MP5A3 simply won’t fit. A PDW w/ 3 mags and a suppressor will pack pretty tight and would make a decent survival package.
Maybe at some point I’ll at least get to try out an MP5K, although I don’t generally have a lot of opportunity around here to shoot full autos.
I ended up ordering a scorpion the other day, so I guess the die has been cast as far as my own PCC choice goes. I found a black one selling for a relatively decent price by current standards. Most of the others I’ve seen selling for reasonable prices have been OD or FDE, which I didn’t really want.
While it’s not my dream PCC, it is by all accounts a decent gun and much more affordable for a peasant like me than an SP5. Technically the Stribog is even cheaper, but the Scorpion currently has more of a real world track record, which was worth the moderate increase in price for me.
My intent is for it to spend as little time as possible as a pistol, I’ll want to vet it as well as the ammo crisis will allow before actually SBRing it, but that is the end goal.