WA - Great news for gun owners and the 2nd Amendment!

We need more judges like the Honorable Catherine Shaffer. http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d12-Judge-in-Seattle-case-Plaintiffs-have-right-to-carry-under-federal-state-constitutions

A King County, WA superior court judge threw some haymakers into a ruling that strikes down the City of Seattle’s illegal ban on guns in city parks, granting not only a summary judgment request from the plaintiffs, but also issuing a permanent injunction against the city, which has 30 days to remove signs from some 500 different facilities. The injunction takes effect Wednesday, Feb. 17.
The lawsuit was filed last fall by the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation and its sister organization, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, plus the National Rifle Association, Washington Arms Collectors and five individual plaintiffs.

        Judge Catherine Shaffer did not mince words in her order, part of which was handwritten and issued from the bench following an afternoon hearing in her Seattle courtroom.

        “The court finds that the plaintiffs have a clear legal or equitable right to carry firearms under the federal and state constitutions,” she ruled.

        The judge also noted that the “court finds that there is no genuine issue of material fact on which reasonable minds could differ.”

        To everyone’s surprise, she also mentioned the landmark Heller ruling against the District of Columbia’s handgun ban that found the Second Amendment to be protective of an individual civil right, an issue that was never brought up in the SAF/NRA legal argument. She also dissected and individually demolished the city’s legal arguments. According to a West Seattle blog, the city is weighing its options and has 30 days to appeal.

        Judge Shaffer’s ruling ends 18 months of legal wrangling, most of it in the court of public opinion before the lawsuit was actually filed last autumn. A second lawsuit, this one filed in federal district court by a man named Robert Warden, is still pending. Incredibly, one of the city’s major news agencies initially reported incorrectly that Warden’s lawsuit had been won. Warden’s lawsuit has nothing to do with the Friday ruling. Later Friday, that information was corrected.

        There was one surprise in the judge’s ruling, however. She found that SAF, CCRKBA, NRA and WAC all lacked standing as organizations, but that the individual plaintiffs had standing. She dismissed the organizational claims “with prejudice.”

        SAF Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb accepted that part of the ruling, noting in a telephone conversation that the important thing is “we won.” He issued a statement to the press following Judge Shaffer's ruling.

        This is a critical victory for gun rights advocates for a several reasons.

        First, it solidifies the state’s model preemption act, adopted more than 25 years ago, and strengthened two years later. Had Washington’s preemption law essentially been gutted by this case, it could have had implications for preemption statutes in other states.

The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.-RCW 9.41.290
Second, the ruling puts other local government entities on notice — specifically Snohomish County, where the Democrat-dominated county council last month brushed aside an opportunity to repeal a 30-year-old ordinance banning guns in county parks — that they must comply with state law. Democrats on the council cavalierly ignored the state preemption statute, instead choosing to “wait and see” what happened with the Seattle case. Now they know.

        Third, the ruling is one more slap to the face of former Mayor Greg Nickels, who arrogantly pushed the gun ban, insisting that the city had the right to regulate guns on park property as though it were private property. A vehement anti-gunner, Nickels is now spreading his view of government to the fertile minds of students at Harvard.

        Nickels’ arrogance and inability to deal with last winter’s snow crisis cost him the mayor’s race during the August primary. That was a political rout, as Nickels came in third behind two political newcomers, signaling that even in far left liberal Seattle, people can eventually get their fill of his kind of demagoguery.

        The ruling puts others of Nickels’ ilk on notice that they will fare poorly when they defy state statute.

        Perhaps what is disturbing about this case is that SAF and NRA, and specifically Gottlieb, gave the city numerous chances to back out of the effort gracefully even before a lawsuit was filed. Multiple warnings came from both organizations, and CCRKBA, that if Nickels pushed for and adopted a ban that he would get slapped with a lawsuit. If anyone thought SAF, CCRKBA and NRA were bluffing, Friday’s court ruling provided ample proof that those organizations don’t bluff.

We will comply with the court order and we are weighing with our clients the options for an appeal.”-Kathy Mulady, Seattle City Attorney’s office
Nickels and the city were advised early on by State Attorney General Rob McKenna that their logic was all wet, and that any kind of ban would violate the preemption law. A SAF attorney sent a very detailed explanation to the city more than 18 months ago why it would lose in court. Seattle ignored his advice and lost big time.

        Lastly, this case was also a big loser for Washington CeaseFire, the extremist gun prohibitionist group that had thrown its waning influence behind the ban. CeaseFire also supported the recently-debated, and defeated, ban on so-called “assault weapons.” CeaseFire’s relevancy has been slipping for a couple of years. CeaseFire President Ralph Fascitelli had a hard time in Olympia recently with open carry activists. This court ruling probably gives him heartburn, while the open carry crowd has been cheering.

        For what it’s worth, the crack SAF legal team in Seattle consisting of attorneys Steve Fogg and Molly Malouf with Corr Cronin did a smashing job. Their legal briefs were rock solid.

        The pity is that if Nickels and the city had not been so arrogant and stubborn, this case would not have been necessary.

Awesome news… The mayor freaked out after the Bumbershoot shooting, and he skirted around lawmakers by creating a “policy” against carrying firearms in Seattle, even trying to block those who have been issued carry permits by the King County Sheriff (which is in downtown Seattle). Way to go for the court showing him that his personal agenda/vendetta is not above the law and constitution. :cool:

Now we just need to get the ridiculous suppressor/silencer law overthrown… We can buy and own suppressors, but we have to leave the state in order to use them. :confused:

WTF?!?!

Looks like another win involving both SAF and the NRA .

yep… WA guys with suppressors are in a weird spot. the law is really vague, and makes for some retarded situations.

here’s an example, currently on-going http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23533

A vehement anti-gunner, Nickels is now spreading his view of government to the fertile minds of students at Harvard.

No doubt he’s sowing a new crop of Sotomayors and Bader Ginsbergs.

It’s not surprising to see that he’s found a home at Obama’s alma mater.

Again, WTF?!?!? And not meant towards you but the state of WA. I’m only a few pages into it but that makes for an interesting read. Confiscating suppressors when they have the proper paperwork and tax stamps?!?! :confused:
Thanks for the link and the info. I learned something new today.

I don’t know about you guys but I wouldn’t be able to continue shooting after that. While it wouldn’t do a lick of good to argue. I’d follow those idiots back to where so ever they deem to go with my NFA regisitered items. Seems those things are like gold and considering I don’t trust anyone in this world…I’d hate to have to explain why and how my suppressors ended up being used in a violent crime.

Everyday I’m reminded of how wonderful Florida is

They were confiscated by the police.

And? Police are not above the law. Who’s to say they aren’t the most crooked guys ever to wear a badge? They illegally siezed personal property. Instead of being smart about it, calling someone who knew, they jumped on the wrong grenade, and I hope they get what they deserve.

Say, for instance, they seize the suppressors. Say, for instance, they do a little research on the way back to the station to book them as evidence, or whatever. They find out they were wrong (they were). They get scared “I’ll lose my job, my pension, maybe face a civil suit, possibly a criminal one for theft. I guess I can just lose these things, and nobody but the people I took them from will know.”

Unlikely, but a possibility.

WA has some backwards-ass laws. I am grateful that I can carry legally, own most things, and shoot lots of places. But, the legal grey areas are so abundant, it’s slighly unnerving.

If you would’ve taken the time to read the thread instead of jumping to conclusions you would’ve realized that the officers who confiscated the suppressors also gave the person a receipt for the items taken.
Therefore you can pretty well assume with a question like “I’d hate to have to explain why and how my suppressors ended up being used in a violent crime.” wouldn’t be too difficult to answer when you’re holding a receipt from an LEO.

Nice sig line BTW :wink:

i was in a state where automatic knives are legal and was minding my own business. i was riding a motorcycle down the road and ended up getting a ticket and yes i was speeding just a bit. but the officer saw the knife on my belt… and then he looks at me and says. “my boy would really like that knife” so he grabs it real fast and pitches it over onto the hood of his car and just stands there staring at me with that “what are you gonna do about it kid, look on his face” i just said “im pretty sure he will sir just make sure he knows its from me”… haha

i say this because theres a good chance those officers knew the law but they just wanted his suppressors… wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened… they could take them and just wait and see if he came after them. if not they score if so then they give em back and claim ignorance of the law… who knows…

there is of course the chance that they just didnt know the law which is most likely what happened. the “rules” regarding suppressors are so frekin convoluted up here it wouldn’t be surprising if they were just ignorant of them all together. then again its kind of hard to believe that an officer who carries a weapon for a living has never walked into a gun store up here and seen the cases full of suppressors…

i dunno. i havent read that whole thread yet but you can be damn sure that if im out with my suppressors im not just going to be flashing them around for everyone to see…

This is the 2nd thread in a matter of minutes that I’ve read about you and your negative interactions with LEOs, not a great first impression but it does stick.

You do realize that suppressors are regulated by the ATF right? You have to be approved, pay a $200 tax, wait a million years, etc. Why would anybody in their right mind not try to follow up on this and get their property back? Especially when dealing with federally regulated items and local officers who are apparently ignorant of the laws pertaining to them?

The 2nd bolded statement sounds a lot closer to what possibly might’ve happened. Police officers are not infallible and do make mistakes, we’re all human, although they may not want to admit to that :wink:

Back on topic, good news for WA!

yeah when i was younger i did have allot of negative run ins with LEO’s. i also mentioned that the places i lived were notorious for this kind of activity. not everyone was blessed with growing up in the edward scissor hands neighborhood. my comments in the other thread were just that. that knock and talks are taken differently depending on what type of neighborhood you live in. and as far as i know its still my right to use my personal first hand experience as evidence for this fact.

i have plenty of good friends that are officers and they know guys in their departments that do things along the lines of what i have described… now do i think negatively about all LEO’s because of my experiences with a few officers? no of course i dont. that would make me a bigot… but i do know that there are good and bad seeds in every industry.

Of interest to the WA guys http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1604&year=2009

Sec. 1. RCW 9.41.250 and 2007 c 379 s 1 are each amended to read
as follows:
(1) Every person who:

Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses …

or USES any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any
firearm (UNLESS the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in
accordance with federal law),

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW. “”"

that would be nice. i keep hearing about this but you know how these things go.

What I find so ironic about cans here in the US is that in Europe of all places you can buy them off the shelf as they are used to keep noise down at ranges.

Why they are a restricted item to the tune of a felony I don’t know. If someone is so intent on using one in a crime they either buy one or make one.

movies. who uses silencers in movies? and what are they used for?

thats all it comes down to.

That off the shelf things is actually more of a myth. In many European countries you can’t even own firearms and you using them for self defense will open you up to prosecution.

In what countries can you not own a firearm?

In some places cans are off the shelf others require a permit. A few are banned. I think Finland, Norway, and France no permit or license is required. England has restrictions based on the gun its going on. Some others require permits but are still obtainable.