plastic handguards are not free float. they have support at both ends whereas the only point of contact and support for the VTAC/TRX is at the barrel nut…
Why are you getting so defensive about a rail. No one here is saying it doesn’t work for you or that it doesn’t even work. What’s being asked is how it compares.
Surf did say he’s not 100% on the durability yet and that it has the potential to get uncomfortable. I think his experience gives his opinion some validity.
I think it’s a great idea. My personal problem, if you can call it that, is that I’m used to rail covers and used to some sort of vert grip. My main concern with the slick rail I had was that I couldn’t use the things I was most used too like the stippled rail covers and vert grip.
I tried the handstops just the past couple days especially and I can’t get used to them. It seems like the KAC needs more dehorning.
Anyway, we all get that it works well for you. But, and you should clearly know this if you’ve taught that many classes and I’m sure you do, is that not everyone will agree and assume your word over all others. Not all products will work for everyone. That is no reason to get defensive or upset with others, who may disagree but may also have the same experiences as a student, an instructor or in country.
The part that makes this forum worth returning to is the opinions of other users. You coming here and acting like you are the only one that could be right doesn’t help. I’d imagine most of us don’t know you or who you are.
Now I’m not trying to call you out or question you at all. I really don’t care as I hink it’s a great hand guard that serves many well. I’ve yet to hear of a broken one or accuracy issues, so my stuff is based on my limited experience with these types of rails and what concern I have. So, I hope you understand that whether someone has 5 or 5,000 posts their opinion is an opinion no matter how much they want it to be fact. Just because my URX II’s have been perfect for my needs doesn’t mean the next guy won’t hate the profile and the integrated front sight.
I just would love to see people say what they’ve experienced, explain their background and how they use their guns then explain what they’ve owned before to compare it to without having to talk down to others, try to discredit them or get pissed that their opinion differs. Why do people get so defensive about he products they use? I’ll never get that. I don’t talk down to BMW owners because I drive one of their rivals and I don’t do that to guys that like McDonald’s when I like What-a-Burger…
Jonathan
I love my vtac trx, it seems plenty durable, I wouldnt worry about that. If you arent running an afg or vertical grip with it, it can get nice and hot, but nothing too crazy.
Without starting a shitstorm, the only rail I’ll ever run is a Daniel Defense Lite Rail.
- 1 Totally agree…
Well…then…KISS.
I am well aware of what they are.
I get the inevitable compare-and-contrast aspect of topics like this, and agree that the DD rails are a great product, but this is a Twitter/Facebook post.
Adding some Whys and Wherefores would make it less so. Without the backstory, the sum total of the statement is “they’re teh gr8est EVAR woot!” and I don’t see how that’s of any use.
WHY is that the only rail you’ll use? HOW did you reach that conclusion? HOW does that address the topic at hand, other than to get yourself involved for the sake of getting involved? Flesh it out, because as it stands, it’s a commercial, not a point of discussion.
Folks need to stop doing drive-by statements like that.
Surf, I ended up cutting an AFG down the same way to use as a simple finger-hook on a Troy VTAC forearm – didn’t vibe with the AFG I received when they came out. I cut it instead of spending $$$ to get a purpose-made handstop to put immediately below my gas block because a metal handstop just absorbed and transferred heat. The rest of my hand was far enough behind the gas block to be unaffected, but my poor, poor index little-piggy would get slightly cooked without gloves. Found it to work well enough with Mechanix gloves; my Petzl gloves, I never notice heat on practically ANY railed forearm.
Some of the folks I know reacted to the sight of it as if cutting an AFG down was the same as taking a dump on the Pope’s prayer rug; cries of “Blasphemer!! Follower of a false prophet!!” rang from crag to cliffside.
I don’t have much to add, but here’s some of my own personal experience with AR handguards throughout the last decade or so.
Most of my experience is with the KAC that gets put onto military M4s. Never thought about accuracy or anything like that really; it just doesn’t affect what I need for my job. I’m not a combat arms guy, either, so take that for what it’s worth.
I’ve got the VTAC Extreme (Troy industries) on my 6.8 custom/frankengun/whatever build. After about 20 rounds continuous or so I have had negligible heat issues and zero durability issues from it. I have over 1k through it total, but, again, the most extreme thing I’ve done with it was about 2 shots/second for a total of 20 rounds. This thing is my antelope and big-assed varmint gun. I’ve never had cause for concern, nor do I doubt their ability to do what they need to do.
My DDM4V1 I have about 5k through it. Mostly cqb type stuff, and nothing out past about 200 yds. I always wear gloves and I’ve never had a problem with the heat transfer from the barrel to my hands. It’s happened, but I’ve not been bothered by it, due to the gloves. I’ve done much harder things with this rifle than anything for work. I also have no reason to doubt that these handguards will be able to withstand whatever I’d throw at them.
OP: what is the actual purpose for your use? What does SHTF mean to you?
I haven’t seen any issues with the strength. I’m running two Troy TRX Extreme rails on a 11.5" and 10.5" suppressed upper. I just pulled my VTAC off to replace it with a Troy version; no reason other than I prefer them over the VTAC.
I’ve used them for classes both as a student and instructor over the last 18+ months.
I have used quad rail handguards from YHM, DD (12.0 FSP), and Troy (TRX Extreme). I prefer the Troy due to its narrower profile. Its easier for me to hold without having to use a VFG. I’ve taken 2 cabine course with them and the rails have never been too hot to hold without gloves.
In addition to the low profile, the light weight is also a plus. BUIS and G2(M61) LED on Gear Sector mount were affixed to the top rail. Only recently did I consider adding some Larue handstops I received during a EAG class. The handstops definitely help me control the rifle better. They also help when in the prone. I’m trying to avoid going with a VFG.
I’ve got a 13" VTAC that I used on my latest build. I like this handgaurd for pretty much the same reasons every one else does. Lightweight and I can get my hand around it. I find that I have better control of the weapon with the VTAC. I was out at the range today running some transition drills and yes the handgaurd does get hot. I solved that issue by putting on my gloves (train as you fight). I don’t believe the handgaurd would be a liability in SHTF scenarios.
Actually, I’ll chime in with a real, honest, Troy TRX Standard failure (same mounting system as far as I know, just a full quad rail system instead of a slick tube). Failed at the mounting point…those two screws holding it on are just not a good idea IMHO. Now, was this a failure that would have stopped a combat rifle? Probably not, because the handguard was still staying ON the gun. Would it have affected accuracy? I don’t know, except that I will note that the irons would not hold a zero (which was a mystery until I bumped the barrel and saw that the handguard itself was loose…but it made for VERY frustrating range trips in the meantime while trying to figure out exactly WHAT was wrong with the gun).
I have faith that Troy will make it right, but I’ve got to get it shipped back first. Will I buy Troy products in the future? Yes. Will I buy another TRX or VTAC handguard with this mounting system? NO. I did not subject it to anything extraordinary…just normal range use and handling.
More details on the failure? Were they tightened per the manual, loctited, index marked, etc? The locking screw method they use is not one I would design on my own, but I know enough people with them (real life people that I can go see in person) that don’t baby their guns and none have come loose. A local SWAT team is running mostly 11.5" guns with these as well, no issues to speak of from their armorer.
Hairline crack just to the side of the two screw mounting area. I don’t know when the failure occurred. It’s just what I saw when I removed the handguard to verify that the barrel nut itself still good.
Was installed per instructions (loctite, handtight and then 1/2 turn more).
The TRX Standard is heavier than the Extreme or VTAC ones and this was a 13" model. I don’t know if either of those factors contributed to the failure of my handguard. I’m not passing judgement on this series of handguards, but just saying that I am no longer satisfied with the mounting scheme and have chosen a different product.
I’ll second this. Had two Troy TRX 13.5" rails. Both were loose. Tried different barrel nuts, torqued until I thought the threads would come out, & Loctite. Still both rails rotated affecting my iron sight accuracy. I prefer the DD Lite Rail positive locking system over anything on the market currently.
Being a relatively new rail system, I wanted someone experienced to install mine - so I sent it to Robb Jensen / Virginia Arms Co and he took care of mine (BCM 16" bfh lw ml + 11" TRX-E). He’s posted descriptions on how he tightens, untightens, retightens the screws, and pics of his custom Troy wrench.