I like the feel of the VTAC handguard by Troy Industries. They are nice and slim…and very light. I know that, in general, they can get a bit hot with sustained fire. How durable are they? Would they be suitable for a SHTF gun?
Anybody?
I would say they’re competition only… but they’re so thin they can bump the gas block if it’s not really slim.
I have no use for them at all. I thought I liked the idea when I saw them pictured. But getting to mess with one first hand changed my mind fairly quickly.
Would you really worry about that if you have a PROPERLY installed, pinned low pro gas block?
FSB’s are subjected to hideous amounts of abuse on a daily basis and generally dont suffer from misalignment.
I would be more concerned with bumping or bending the gas tube but i dont believe this is an issue with this style of rail.
If the world was going to end i would much rather have a lightweight quad rail as you never know what you might stumble upon that you could bolt to the gun. Having said that…the majority of stuff i would WANT to find could be bolted to the top rail.
I think this is one of those hypothetical discussions that has no real answer. M16’s did fine for years in times of war with nothing but plastic for furniture.
The VTAC is on my duty AR. Every time it gets deployed, in my mind, the SHTF. It’s fine. I don’t see it crapping out anytime soon.
Not at all. Barrel whipping an hitting the hand guard on the other hand would make for a horrible accuracy situation.
Plus the whole thing about the improperly hardened barrel nuts… Forget it! I’ll stick with a true combat rail system. KAC, LARUE, DD, etc.
Having said that…the majority of stuff i would WANT to find could be bolted to the top rail.
Same here. Which is why I kinda liked the Troy/VTAC at first glance… but not so much now.
glad u guys have it figured out. the only real user is a l.e., says its fine
i have 3 on o.t.d. guns and was 1 of the original field testers. no worries on strength. battered yes “barrel whip” come on guys get real
not to be rude, been doing this 40 yrs and never seen a barrel move more than 1/4Th of an inch even when jammed in a door to keep it from closing. went right back to as good a zero as i had before i jammed in in the door
b.t.w. read kyle lamb’s biography and them comment on building uppers but only if u equal his experience.
b.t.w.#2 the forenend (armalite) on his work gun in the pic, is a prototype which rest on a gun in my safe.
no financial interest just a friend
good luck
I’ve had the 13" VTAC on a build with a somewhat heavy 18" SS SPR barrel and 2.5x10x32 NF Scope for over a year and ~2,000 rounds. It gets a lot of use on a concrete bench with a bi-pod and is also used for 3-Gun. It’s still as solid as the day it was installed, but I’ve never fallen off a cliff with it.
I also have the 11" Troy XTR on a 14.5" LW /w smaller magnified optic and it’s just right for my uses as well. They just fit my hands better than a standard rail.
These FF rails come nowhere close to touching the gas blocks I’m using (pinned Vltor on the 18" and pinned DD on the 14.5"), but it might be very close with a clamp on gas block. You also have to pay attention where you mount the lower accessory rail - the Vltor gas block just touched the backing plate if mounted in the most forward bottom position.
I have the BCM 18" with 13" VTAC handguard. While I’ll admit I don’t abuse my rifle, I have actually been quite amazed with how solid the handguard is. It looked to me at first like it would be a little flimsy, but once you get in locked on (and it doesn’t take a lot of torque on the screws), the thing won’t move.
Probably not the best option if you intend the rifle for HTH combat, but I wouldn’t hesitate to use it for serious business.
And I’ll agree with the above poster, if K Lamb is endorsing a product, accuse me of drinking kool aid, but I would tend to trust his stuff.
I don’t think Mark or anyone else was bashing your friend. Kyle definitely has my respect. The concer is about a handguard, not him. They DO get very hot quickly and gloves aren’t something everyone wears every time they shoot. Also, they don’t feel as robust as other options, hence the concern. Look at the VTAC light mount. I’ve seen two break. The only two light mounts ice ever seen break. This doesn’t mean Kyle sucks, it means I’ve seen two light mounts break and I happen to prefer a different mount.
I have read Kyle’s bio and it’s impressive. It does not mean that we can’t make choices or voice our concerns about his product. This isn’t GlockTalk, a lot of us here know out way around a gun and have used them for more than plinking. I’ve also read Larry Vickers bio, but it doesn’t mean I need to extend my stock all the way and shoot bladed.
Now, I bought one of the KAC URX II special run lightweight rails. KAC is known for hard use military products, specifically rails. 1 minute with his thing I wanted to get rid of it. It had flex and didn’t feel anywhere near as solid as my standard URX II’s or DD rails. I’m not putting down KAC, it just so happens this particular rail didn’t suit my needs and would maybe be better on a rifle that won’t see as much abuse. Hopefully the URX III is more solid feeling.
Anyway, I have limited experience with the VTAC rail. It doesn’t feel as solid as I’d like, but due to the shape, I think of it more like an arch that supports a lot of force or even like an egg when you try to squeeze it. I think it will handle more abuse than I first suspected and should be just fine even if it’s not as hard-use as a KAC or DD.
What keeps me from buying any of the tubular or slick rails is not the sturdiness, but it’s the heat transfer. It can get -00 degrees here with very high humidity so thin gloves are the most you can endure if it’s that hot out. Depending on the drills one shoots, the rails have the ability to get very hot. Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying they’ll burn your skin… What I’m saying specifically for me is if I have the option to run rail covers and no gloves in the high heat over a tubular rail with no covers, I’ll lean towards the rails and covers.
Again, this is not a slam on Kyle Lamb or even on the VTAC handguard as I’d run one without complaint, it’s just pointing out that some feel it may not be as robust as other options.
I have the 13 inch Troy Extreme on one of mine, its the same thing as the vtac. I have the low profile gas block installed, i think its a pretty good rail. Its nice and thin you can wrap your whole hand around it, very comfortable to me, some people dont like that style, its also light with the low pro gas block and it comes with 3 rail sections that you can attach to suit your needs. It does get warm. I like it, i like other things though also and as far as durabilty mine has been solid, but its only about 6 months old and about 750 rounds of pretty light use to be honest.
Gentlemen:rolleyes:
The only time I have ever had any of my VTAC TRX’s heat up to the point where it was slightly uncomfortable to hold, was last summer when I spent the entire day on the range (approx 6 hours) under the sun in 95+ degree temps shooting cqb drills. After taking a short break to hydrate and leaving my AR on top of my black soft/discreet carrying case to bake in the sun, I picked it up to shoot another drill and thought “damn, thats kinda hot, better cover it up next time”. No gloves, but it never got hot enough that I couldnt handle it. I think unless you are doing beta-mag dumps in the desert, the overheating issue is a bit overblown.
I agree about the heat and it being overblown at times. I should clarify that I think they get hot, relatively speaking. Eventhough I’ve never had any slick or tubular rail burn my hand or get too uncomfortable, they have gotten noticeably hotter than my standard rails. So, I think my concern has always been how hot they could get under heavier use like a high round count carbine class or a long day shooting certain drills. I guess I’ve just always played it safe.
I will be trying a URX III now that a guy on Silencer Talk showed how he screwed KAC rail covers onto the sides. That seems like the best of both worlds, but who knows!
The only consistent issue I’ve seen is users going full retard installing the screws and ripping the helicoils out (full disclosure: I’ve done this myself).
They’re extremely slim, and I’m not really a fan of how any of the bolt-on rails attach. It would be awesome if TangoDown or somebody could figure out how to make low profile polymer handguard sections that clipped into the VTAC slots… but unlikely this will ever pan out.
I’ll accept the limitation of only a thin piece of metal as a thermal block, since the rifles I use these on I only intend to fire 3-7 magazines at most, and then grab a pair of gloves if there is discomfort.
I’m still extremely tempted to see if I can get away with running these slick still, but masking the railed section and rhino lining the rest of the handguard to add more insulation and texture.
Since all mine extend over LP gas blocks, I fail to see that worry playing out, there’s enough clearance all around.
I’ve got an 11" TRX Extreme on my carbine running an HBAR barrel and a Vortex low pro gas block.
While I only have a little under 1K rounds through the rifle so far, here is what I have noted
Sturdiness has been plenty for me. As this is not a duty weapon, this may not mean as much, but it has not caused me any issues. I have used it with a bipod and have seen no ill effects.
It does heat up rather quickly. A few quick mags will put a, not painful, but definitely noticeable amount of heat out to your hands. And this was on a cool day.
I don’t have any perfectly strait on shots but I think you can see from this pic that with a proper low prow block, there is plenty of room IMO and I don’t see contact being an issue.
What is the cause for concern? People are OK with plastic handguards that offer no support yet concerned about how sturdy an aluminum tube that they cannot deflect on their own?
I don’t comment much on here. So I will introduce myself. I am just an average joe country boy. Not LE nor MIL. I am a hunter and a competitive shooter. I have not used nor even touched the VTAC. However, I have two 13" Troy TRX Extremes. Some of the things some people are saying in this thread are laughable. “I have never had any first hand experience with this rail but here are the reasons why I won’t use it. Blah blah blah.” :bad:
Seriously. I use one of them for predator hunting with outstanding success. Don’t believe me? Maybe the 20 or so predators I kill each winter will tell otherwise. Some of you may laugh. But I bet your ass it has seen harder use then some of the safe queens on here. It gets beat up in the field and I still drop predators with it, time and time again. Most of that may not be contributed to the rail itself, but come on. I have used it hard and I haven’t found one single thing I dislike about it. Making shots from 20 to 200 yards on running predators aren’t a problem. The rail’s length, durability, and weight were the deciding factors for me to put them on my hunting rifle.
My second 13" TRX Extreme is on my “competition” rifle. I use it for rifle matches and 3 gun. Its very durable and light “enough” weight for me. Several thousand rounds and more than several competitions can prove it. Wanna see pics? Wanna see video? I’ve got 'em both.
If you haven’t used something (or at least something very very similar) then how do you know so much about it? Because some guy on LF, SH, or TOS said so? :jester:
Since some folks decided that they can just start mouthing off because they feel like it, I started deleting posts because I felt like it.
Two way street, and all that. Maybe we should all go with our brains and the technical aspects of the question at hand, instead of attempting to arbitrarily assign gender roles by remote…
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that of folks with a couple-few THOUSAND posts.
I have a 13" Troy version and have built several uppers for others using the Troy. Mine is not on my primary working rifle but I have been using it pretty heavily as a teaching rifle for several months, numerous courses taught, hours of training evolutions and thousands of rounds. So far so good. I know this is a sample of 1 but I don’t baby the weapon. The others I have built are also doing well with no issues under what I would consider moderate usage.
As a frame of reference, I do teach select fire courses so I very much understand the heat issue, but for a semi auto variant I have run it about as hard or rapid as anyone could imagine in any formal training course anywhere and the handguards do get very warm to darn uncomfortable. Nothing that you can’t fight through if you life was on the line in battle, but it isn’t pleasurable at very high volumes of consistent fire. Gloves is a non issue.
Having said the above, I am still not completely sold on its durability if I were going into battle on foreign soil when there are other choices that would have my full trust. Perhaps I have not fully vetted it yet in my own mind. It would also not be my first choice in a heavy use select fire weapon either. It does get hot. I don’t like to think I am just being a wimp about the heat, but if I truly heat it up in the manner in which I shoot it, I cannot imagine anyone picking it up and not thinking that the rail is uncomfortable to handle. I should also add that it gets uncomfortably hot and I use my own modified version of the AFG which buffers the heat, but the thumb over or index finger really feels the heat.
If I were into competition I would think that the Troy or VTAC would be my choice. I like the diameter and light weight. Not intending to say it is only for competition but it would probably be my first choice.
Even with this type of AFG it still gets very warm.
gee whiz: the guys running the vtac and actually using then seem to have no problems.
my prototype has:
- 10k Rd’s on it
- 3yrs old
- a ton of 3-gun
- maybe 50 classes of carbine i have taught.
5 dont have 2000 posts cause i only talk about thing i have fnv. not what “others say.” gotta get the post ccount up.
good luck