http://www.voodooinnovations.com/vdi-lifecoat-integral-bolt-carrier
Military Arms channel posted a link to this on Facebook, looks interesting. I’ve never heard of this company and a quick search revealed no threads on the topic. Has anyone ran one? Any thoughts on the integrated gas key?
Adams Arms. I don’t know anything about their bolt carriers, but I have one of their nitrided barrels and it’s excellent from a finish and accuracy standpoint. I only have about 2500 rounds through it so I can’t judge longevity yet. However, the barrels and BCGs are used on Huldra’s, which I see a lot of around here, and they have held up extremely well.
I see no reason why a DI carrier with an integral key from Adams Arms wouldn’t last.
Their piston carriers with integral strike faces see a lot more force at the same location and have zero issues.
This is a clue…
I’m trying wrap my arms around how they made a 90 through the gas key into the carrier. Is there an access hole in the cocking surface directly across from where gas normally enters the carrier?
It has been tried before I believe. Salient even posted one on their Facebook at one point. Im sure it commanded a premium with their bling on it.
https://www.facebook.com/SalientArmsInternational/photos/pb.201574069887308.-2207520000.1437624981./976840765693964/?type=3&theater
As for durability? I am unsure. Grade 8 fasteners and proper staking have seemed to do the trick for a while. Not to mention if the gas key were to be damaged (I don’t know how it would be) you would be replacing the entire carrier and not just the key.
I heard of VDI probably 2 or 3 years ago. They’re basically Adams Arms, which has been around longer than that.
An inelegant solution, but that would be the easiest way to do it. A small diameter hole (no idea what diameter) wouldn’t adversely affect the hammer as the bolt rode over it.
Here’s my thoughts on the matter. Over the last 10 years roughly, I have had to remove primers that blew into the carrier key hole which required removal of the key. I also had to help remove a wooden Q-tip as well. Just about a month ago at the SIONICS shop, someone came in with a primer in the carrier key hole. Steve had to remove the key, push the primer out and re-key and stake it.
I have also seen carrier keys with dented lips from being dropped and they needed to be replaced.
If that happens with one of these, I expect you are not going to get it out, and the carrier will be useless at that point. Staking isn’t rocket science. I have yet to see one that was done correctly come loose. If it does come loose, it’s an easy fix. Worst case scenario unless it is a specialty carrier like an LMT enhanced, a new M16 BCG can be purchased for about 1/2 price.
If you look at the pic closely, you can see a line where it looks be attached to the carrier. Integral maybe, one piece doesn’t look like it.
Upon looking more closely at google pics, that line I could be just a machined part of the carrier. But I can’t seem to find additional pics to tell for sure.
Thanks, I’d never even thought about a blown primer finding its way into the key and you’re right, properly staked keys don’t seem to be an issue. I was just a bit curious hearing about this carrier for the first time.
Not only would be unreasonably priced due to “bling” as you say, but I would guess there is a good chance it is in fact the Voodoo Innovations carrier…Salient doesn’t actually make anything AFAIK.
Excellent points. There are a lot of great innovations lately, and there are others that solutions looking for problems. Always appreciate your real life feedback, as it helps separate the useful improvements from the marketing hype.
Just a few things…
One, the hole through the key is at a 45° angle, not 90°. it then goes through a 90° hole in the bolt carrier itself. However, there is not reason you would have to mimic these bends exactly, just make sure the hole in the carrier cavity is in the right place, namely in the enlarged section about 1.75" from the face of the carrier.
Two, if you look at a cross section drawing of a bolt carrier, and draw a 45° hole that passes through the top of the carrier cavity about 1.75" from the face of the carrier, you will see that this hole now passes through the firing pin hole out the bottom of the carrier. Namely, it does not have to be closed off. Therefore, if anything does become lodged in the key, it can be removed the same way as if the key were removable, pushed out with a stiff wire.
Damage due from dropping or just plain abuse, will, however, be expensive.
I wonder how many people got irritated when one piece wheels came out. “Great…now I have to replace the wheel instead of just one spoke?”
Doesn’t matter if wheel is spoked or solid. If you screw up a wheel your vehicle is down until a replacement is installed. Most people don’t carry a torch/plasma cutter , TIG welder, a BFH, a wheel jig and a wheel balancer in their vehicle.
Likewise for a carrier. If you’re in the field and a magical piece of whatever plugs your key, you’re down. The expedient fix would be a carrier. Not remove and re-stake the key.
I like the idea of these new carriers. I think they remove more possible problems than they create. Of course, they need to be priced to compete for the people that may be on the fence.
With the way people react to change, it’s amazing that AR’ish rifles ever advanced from fixed carry handles, 1-12 twist and triangular handguards.
So let me say this. I have zero experience with this carrier. I would need to see it hands on. If the design is any way similar to a USGI carrier/key but in a one piece design, if something like a primer gets in there, it’s going to be fun.
For me, since I use properly built components from the start, it does not nothing for me.
But, we aren’t talking about “the field” and these aren’t being marketed to field units. They are being marketed to the commercial world. Once you add the cost of a good bolt, cam pin, firing pin, etc… you are looking at 200.00 for something that may solve a problem.
Considering I can rekey a carrier in about 5 minutes with a MOACKS that costs 89.00 dollars and have a permanent fix, I am not seeing a value here.
This… This makes more sense to me. Like what was said, a field expedient fix for a damaged carrier would be to replace it. However at an opportune time I’d like to be able to repair the damaged carrier. This may work or it might not. Early adopters always figure out issues first and with the most difficulty as more often than not they’re really beta testers so support is often slow.
Interesting but I’ll stick to the proven design. It’s easy to change out a carrier key if it’s damaged or a primer happens to find it’s way in there. Maybe I’ll change my mind down the road but that would only be after the one piece has proven itself in combat over a period of time.
I’m not sure about this specific product, however Voodoo does make very high quality stuff. My experience with them has been limited to a handful of barrels, but I’ve been very very impressed so far. I would say they’re probably good to go.