I’ve been flipping through some YouTube videos lately and I see that a lot of them are taken at well-known carbine classes. They’re usually helmet-mounted or rail mounted GoPros/ContourHDs, etc. Often there is a camera operator hovering over one of the shooters (the host of the “channel” you’re watching).
I’m surprised to see it so widespread, considering the environment is usually very controlled with extreme emphasis on safety. If I were an instructor, the last thing I’d tolerate would be students distracted by cameras, either personal or manned. Half the time I’m distracted enough worrying if the guy next to me is going to muzzle-sweep me again.
To me, a class isn’t about getting good footage or YouTube hits, it’s about setting your ego aside and absorbing and applying information. Considering that some people rely on hits to generate income, I wouldn’t be surprised to see their behavior altered in certain ways to ensure compelling content. I’m a professional camera operator, and I know very well how differently people act when there’s a lens on them. I also know that when you’re filming, you have a mental timeline of the story you’re trying to tell so that you can ensure that you get the shots you need. That’s yet another thing detracting from the shooter’s ability to absorb and apply.
Does anyone else have thoughts or experiences with this? Maybe I’m making something out of nothing here.
For the You Tube channel type, I can see the camera being a distraction. For many people I would think that the camera serves to get an A/V record of what they were told, and how they ran the drill. I compare it to sports in school. Play on Saturday, film on Sunday.
Exactly, it is for personal use and review so you can continue to run the same drills later on. There is a Costa Carbine 1 course in May next year that I’m hoping to be able to use my countourHD on a hat mount. I have 2 16gig memory cards and I plan on turning the camera on and leaving it on once we hit the range.
As far as video camera’s go I usually don’t see anything but there are always professional photographers that are there to take pictures for the company or magazine articles. I’ve seen a few people try to run goPro’s while they were shooting and they generally ditch the idea because it gets in their way. Some instructors seem to tolerate iPhone videos for note taking purposes but that seems to be in the minority. All media related things are actually taken care of at the beginning of classes I’ve been to or people are just smart enough to know what is appropriate or not.
With the proliferation of these body cams, two types seem to be in possession of them most frequently: The dedicated student, tracking performance in pursuit of improvement and diligence; and the hey-look-at-me type that races to write the first AAR for the internet or update his youtube channel.
The former is no bother to class. The latter can compromise learning, safety, or OPSEC as we all trip over his clown shoes. Instructors should make their expectations clear as to what sorts of video and photo work is permitted. If not clear going in, it should be a topic of discussion at the outset to make sure everyone is on the same page and okay with intentionally or potentially being recorded.
I’d like to hear the opinions and policies of the guys running classes who are personally, professionally, and financially invested in their work product.
Personally, I am not really thrilled with showing up on somebody’s Wall of Fame without being specifically asked.
Like Skintop911 says, I have zero problems with the fellow striving for self-improvement. But if he’s publicly posting videos with my mugshot, I want him to either blur me out, or make damn sure I’m not in the shot. I’m no sneaky camo dood, but he needs to secure permission from everybody if he does that. Not just the instructor.
Whenever I take photo’s (not video) of classes I make it a point to ask everyone that is attending if it is okay with them having their photo’s on the internet. If it’s not - then they are left alone, or Photoshopped out later.
Also - if there are students who are trying to “show off” for the camera, then they are left alone as well. It’s worth noting that I’ve only noticed this type of behavior once or twice. Most that are there are there to learn and do not dick around trying to look cool.
At the classes I have taken (four Redback One courses), I have specifically been told to not photograph, video, or audio record anything in the class. The instructor had an approved photographer for each of those classes for promotional and advertising uses in the future. I would not want fellow students running around with video cameras.
No matter what, the “open course” training circuit is still a business which have clients and those clients have certain desires. While video can be distracting, it also has some real value for the student. If were being real, for many people, courses are a rare opportunity and they want the memories to take home, share and perhaps post on youtube. For others it can be a legitimate tool for self remediation down the line and a video log of drills etc…I know many have clauses in the contract for the course, so it would be a balancing act of sorts. Keeping all the clientele happy.
One thing I will ABSOLUTELY comment on, is that MANY “open enrollment courses” have FAR too low of an instructor to student ratio, with FAR too little personalized attention given to each student. Some seem like a total, here are some cool drills, shoot a bunch of rounds orgasm. So if an individual finds that the camera is their best source for instruction or source of remediation obtained from a course, then IMO there is an issue with personal attention given to the student and this happens WAY too often.
I’m editing about 100 gigs of video I took at a recent class with a go pro. Most of the footage is useless because the waterproof case drowned out the audio but there is some really good stuff that will come in handy for personal reference and my own entertainment. I do not plan on posting footage on YouTube out of respect of the other students even though they were cool with it. I may post some footage here if it can be helpful to others but I will blur faces, once I figure out how to do it. I’m currently using windows movie maker but I’m not sure if it is capable of blocking out faces.
Once I have it all out together I will send a copy to the instructor and he can do what he pleases with it.
Most instructors I train with do NOT allow video or audio. Why? For many different reasons. First is none PC discussions. Talking about sensitive topics is not something that needs to be seen by the general public. Second is that it is easy for viewers to think something isn’t safe because of the angle. Third is because they didn’t pay for the training. You paid your hard earned money so why give it away to someone that paid nothing??
If the student wants to “capture” what was said or done so they can improve, there is this new invention called pen and paper! Take notes!
Very few people have the ability to fully understand what they might look like to the point they could “pencil and paper” it. But I agree, it seems like running video or even audio could lead to some undesired issues. It would seem to me that no matter who was teaching that at least some segment of the training could be arranged such that video/audio could be captured for/by the student. I know that me personally I can practice something, go over it in my head, write it down, whatever… but when I video myself, it’s a whole different picture and I usually “see and know” that I did it really wrong or pretty much right. There’s a reason they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Remember you are only as good as your eye witness account and I believe most here have said most people make really bad eye witnesses. Pen and paper simply doesn’t compare to video. It’s an ok remedy if nothing else is available. Ideally it would be a video of the instructor followed by video of student for comparison.
There is definite value in video, and I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise. It’s the manner and purpose many are taken with, and the secondary issues that can arise that complicates the matter.
I record some individual practice sessions, enabling me to diagnose a problem I don’t understand at the time, or don’t even realize is occurring. I occasionally videotape match stages to see what I’m doing in stress performance. I’ve attended FLETC and Strategos classes that recorded students in structured, formal exercises for later review and progress assessment. In those, the video was taken by instructors, is owned and retained by the program, and is not distributed. I like that structure very much.
The POV recording with body cams often seen on the net isn’t providing a lot of diagnostic opportunity. It’s mostly entertainment.
On note taking… I keep a spiral notebook in my pocket during classes and write like a mad man at each opportunity. I manage to capture both major and minor instructional points of interest, as well as other observations of the course. After class, I type those notes and scan any drawings and file them away. They are a tremendous resource.
With currently available technology, instructors should anticipate being recorded openly or surreptitiously, and adjust accordingly. If an off-comment isn’t captured on video, it’s a sound bite on a smart phone, or in an AAR published to the net. It’s sad that our modern social and legal environment doesn’t allow the candor it used to, but it is what it is.
Yep… agree 100%. That’s exactly how I see it. Especially the part about the instructors needed to not only retain rights on the videos but actually move towards integrating them such that the student not even need to be concerned with that aspect. Agree, I’m not a big POV person. I generally don’t like to even watch those videos and I can’t for the life of me imagine what 99% of people would gain from them instructionally.
But these have a narrower page, fit perfectly in the hand, and have a stiff cover and back. They also have a ruler on the back, makes it easy to snap a quick cell phone pic of a grouping. I carry one of those notebooks with me per class, to write up a personal AAR. That gets edited heavily if it gets posted on the web.
I agree that there is a legitimate training purpose, but it’s a bit limited by the environment. If you’re in a class, on the line, and the instructor is bellowing at everyone from 25 yards, you’re not picking up his audio. The majority of the videos I see are focused on the shooter because they’re body or gun-mounted cameras.
Also, I have seen people remove their mags during reload drills and SET them on the ground so they don’t damage them. Are they going to dive to a prone position with a GoPro mounted on their chest? Nope.
There is a place for cameras such as go pros in a class if used for the right purpose. One should first receive permission from the instructor and then students. If not it’s a no go from there period. I recently attended a cqb course with co workers and a buddy ran one on his helmet. Reviewing the runs was just as beneficial as actually doing them.