Vickers Tactical battle rifle class Nov 19-20 Deland FL

Training Vickers Tactical
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Gents as many of you know I don’t normally post my own AAR’s - only in situations when something noteworthy has happened - in my opinion that is the case with this class

It was a semi private/industry type class that Kevin B from KAC helped setup - it was following an AK class in Gainesville so schedule wise it worked out great

Weapon breakdown in the class was 10 KAC SR 25 carbines ( all made within the last couple years -including the gun I taught with) , 2 LaRue 7.62 guns ( PredatAR and OBR ) and an FN SCAR H

A wide variety of ball and match ammo was used

Each student shot an estimated 500 - 600 rds over 2 days in a variety of skill drills and weapons familiarization fire ( I brought a post sample G3 and G1 FAL, Trey Knight brought out an ultra rare AR 10 NATO model carbine in mint condition and an M1A National Match gun ) - students took one of my world famous small arms written tests for a VCAS padded sling and got a brief history lesson on the big 4 battle rifles - then got trigger time on each. As you can imagine a great time was had by all

I wanted to write this to bring attention to a couple areas many people have asked me about over the years- good DI battle rifles and good affordable options to the S&B short dot- here goes;

  1. The KAC SR25 carbines in the class not only were accurate but reliable - the only two stoppages out of 4000-5000 rds shot thru 10 different guns was an over insertion of a PMAG and a failure to feed from a PMAG ( both mag related IMO) ;I was extremely impressed. KAC has really put serious effort into making that carbine accurate and reliable. Trust me just a few years ago the results would have been different . From what I saw if you are looking for a 7.62 AR style carbine your first look should be at a KAC SR25 setup - I was truly blown away

Also the PMAG’s as I was told before the class by several guys are fine for range use but for anything serious use the current KAC mags - they have really worked those out also

As far as a reasonably priced short dot alternative I think I have found it ; the Leupold Mk6 1-6; Jack ( F2S here on M4C ) was running one and I got a little trigger time behind it. Excellent glass, ok red dot ( horseshoe/dot actually ) and reasonable size

Best part is the price is around $1600 retail I am told - I am getting one to shake out but it has the makings of a real winner

Can’t wait to get some real time behind the optic to make a final call but it has promise for sure

Also by the way Jack shot extremely well in a class of good shooters - well done brother!!

Last but not least I was able to try out the new KAC MAMS hybrid comp/flash suppressor on my carbine - the felt recoil reduction was amazing ; the fact it has tolerable muzzle blast and reduced flash ( for a comp) just adds icing on the cake

I am not a big fan of comps in general and on a 5.56mm gun they are of debatable value but I must say I have seen 2 of the best ever in recent weeks - the BCM gunfighter comp and the KAC MAMS. And I will say this I plan on keeping my MAMS on my SR 25 carbine as the benefits out weigh the negatives in my book

Well there you have it- hopefully Kevin B and F2S will chime in here - I don’t do many battle rifle classes because 7.62 ammo is so expensive but I am glad this one came to pass

Thanx to Steve, Casey , and the rest of the crew for a good class and a good time

Hopefully we can do it again

Be safe

LAV

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LAV,

Steve here; thanks again for comming down our way for a truely awesome class.

We will definately be in touch to do this again in the near future!

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Thanks for the writeup, I’m pretty disappointed that I chose not to attend. I am curious about your thoughts on the Larue PredatAR, did it seem like the lightweight barrel was holding the shooter back any?

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A big Thank you definitely goes out to Steve, Kevin, and Casey for putting this together. I wouldn’t have missed it for anything (which was actually the case for me since it was my wedding anniversary)…

Thanks LAV for the education of the battle rifle, it definitely opened my eyes to how instrumental each was to the developement of today’s modern semi-auto rifles.

You can count me in for the next one if it ever comes to fruitation.

Jimmy

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It was a great class.

As usual LAV was a great teacher, both in the shooting aspect, and in the historical aspects (and can’t forget the humor).

As mentioned F2S is a great shooter.

I was not surprised by the reliability of the guns :stuck_out_tongue: Of course I had the advantage of being on the Battle Rifle PIP program here at KAC.

Brief pictorial of the guns used.

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Actually all the 7.62 guns in the class ran great - we had a couple issues with the SCAR - H but it was felt by the shooter it was interference with the charging handle - the location FN chose for that makes sense from an engineering point of view as it seals up any openings when it is in battery but easily interferes with the shooter and barricades, etc.

Both Larue guns ran fine - because of the number of KAC SR 25 carbines in the class ( 10) it was much more of a test of that platform due to the qty of rounds fired over 10 guns

Across the board we had very few issues with any of the guns over the 2 day class - a big part of this is we had a group of dialed in students with good gear, guns and ammo ; that is the X factor to be sure

Next time around you guys who missed it need to make sure you find time cause ill dream up some other interesting drills to make it challenging

Be safe

LAV

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Was this a mix of precision rifle shooting and carbine shooting? Or basically running a 7.62 battle rifle like a carbine but engaging longer distances? How far were engagements for targets? Glad the KAC rifles held up well.

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This write up really sealed the deal for me regarding my decision to order the SR 25 ECC. I’m sorry I missed the course as I’ve attended Mr. Vickers’ courses before and thoroughly enjoyed them. I’m hoping to get in on the next one as my ECC should be shipping to my dealer within a few weeks. The recommendation of a short dot Leupold optic by Mr. Vickers is greatly appreciated as well because I was clueless about what glass I should pick up to mount on it. Got Pmags on order as well but I’ll have to add some sr25 mags to my order for serious use. Regarding the offset Irons on the SR 25, were these implemented/instructed on during the course or do most guys simply stick with short dot style glass and use irons only if the main optic goes down? Thanks for the write up.

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A few shot irons on some drills - but not anything specific.

Several of us plugged the 200m Steel standing with the AR10 Carbine (original), and by and large the only use of the irons was on those historical guns.

I missed most of the first day due to work - so I cannot comment on that beyond a walk back drill to 375m (F2S plugged standing).

The second day we did some longer range finishing up at some 900m steel. Most of it was true Battle Rifle/Heavy Carbine usage. Shoot on the move, transition when you need to, reload drills, etc.

All in all I would have rather not gone to the longer ranges (beyond 600m) - but that is my home range, and we can go long whenever, for several others, it was the only opportunity they would have for a while.

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I’ll definitely make sure to brush up on the history of the big 4 before the next class and I recommend anyone else thinking of taking the class do the same :smiley:

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It was a mix of short and long - next time ill brainstorm with Steve to make it an even bigger mix; truly highlighting the extreme close and longer range capabilities of the platform

If you ask the students I’m sure they will tell you the biggest challenge was to figure out where and when to use what magnification, red dot, etc.

That is the fun part!! Expect more of the same next time

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I really liked the flow of the class.
LAV discussed the issues of perception with the concept, with a clear differentiation between how we can run a 5.56 gun versus a 7.62 gun, not as physical limitation of the user, but mechanical wear of the firearm. It was a neat discussion, one worth hearing from LAV himself.

The majority if the class ran from 25 to 100 meters, with a significant portion being devoted to long range (out to almost 1k).

The class was not super high round count, I shot around 500 rounds over 2 days. There was a solid emphasis on high accuracy, which I really like.

The current KAC 7.62 guns are impressive. I’m sure someone will look at my sig line and assume that I’m biased, however, I chose to work for KAC specifically because of the 7.62 guns that are produced here. I have experience behind the Scar-H, PredatAR, and several other “big boy” guns, but it’s the Knight’s guns that I always liked the most.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

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Thanks for letting me get a peek through through Leupold 1-6 Jack. May have to pick one of those up also.

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Thanks to Mr. Vickers, Steve, and the folks from KAC for making this a heck of a class. Defiantly will look for the next battle rifle class.

I don’t get much of an opportunity to do this sort of shooting, and it was a welcome change of pace. Learned a lot, and getting the chance to shoot that AR-10 was worth the trip.

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Gosh that looks like a lot of fun. Great pics guys. I am curious as to what to focus of the class was? Was it just like any other carbine class except with 308?

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In my opinion yes, it was similar to a typical carbine class where most of the drills were done between 0-100yds…On TD2 after lunch, we finished up the day engaging steel targets at various distances between 150m-918m…

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I really would have liked to have taken this class with my FAL. Fuck…

How did the AR10 compare to the ECC? Just curious; I know they’re two wildly different animals.

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I was following this class closely on TOS site and was certainly surprised and impressed by some of what I read, and heard about the class, guns and equipment after the class.

When you hear Larry speaking highly of a comp, DI Battle Rifle and a reasonable alternative to the Short Dot, its probably a good idea to listen and maybe even play your lucky numbers in Power Ball. :smiley:

I have been very leery of the SR25 in the past for a few reasons, but clearly KAC has put a lot of effort into making these guns run and run well. Now that the issues appear to be sorted, I will be adding one to my herd of .308’s.

The MK6’s I have been hard for over the last year or so, and I plan on picking up two with the CMR ret. Looks to be a lot of glass for the money. Rock solid in the durability department, has some good ret. options, all in a relatively small package at a fair price.

It looks like most guys were running the factory mount, does this indicate that they are GTG, or that there are simply not a lot of options available in the 34mm size at this point?

Thanks for the AAR and now we need to get another one of these classes on the books a little farther north! :wink: