Nighthawk is not the first or last:
Sprinfield - Rob Leatham & FBI
Kimber - LAPD SWAT & DET-1
Les Baer - Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch
Para Ordnance - Todd Jarrett
That is very true. Don’t forget Colt and S&W and their Gunsite models as well, and Dan Wesson has had at least one in the form of a GunDoc model. Isn’t more than one maker doing a “Thunder Ranch” these days?
IIRC, S&W has a Thunder Ranch revolver, a fixed-sight N-frame. I don’t recall any other TR 1911s.
I know Wilson used to make the Thunder Ranch 1911 and I think Robar still makes a version but does not advertise it much.
Also forgot the S&W Doug Koenig 1911.
…and now back to the subject of the Vicker’s NH.
The one thing that I would really like to check out on this pistol is the integral plunger tube. Seems like an idea that was long overdue on a single stack.
The feature I don’t understand is the fire indicator dot on the side. It doesn’t bother me, but I don’t see a need for it either.
I would love to have one of these 1911’s and it is on my wish list, but that list is long … too long. The 10-8 Nighthawk would also be nice.
Les Baer’s been making TR 1911’s for several years now.
My number one question regarding the Vickers gun, (and to a lesser extent the 10-8 gun) is what makes it a $2800+ gun vs. the $2200 GRP. I see that the rear of the slide is serrated and it comes with a magwell, but are there other apects that make it more expensive? I wouldn’t count the sights/trigger as those really shouldn’t be upcharges from the standard parts.
I must have missed the point to this.
Think about it.
Vickers Tactical 1911, by Nighthawk Custom specs:
-Caspian Slide and Frame
-Front Grasping Grooves - Caspian Enhanced National Match Style
-Ball end mill relief cut on front sides of slide
-5 inch Match Grade Barrel and Bushing - crown of muzzle flush with bushing
-Low Mount Novak or Low Mount Heinie sights standard - shooter specifies
-Dovetail Front Sight - serrated and roll pinned in place
-3-Dot Tritium Night Sights
-Vickers “Hard Use” Trigger
-25 LPI Checkered Frontstrap
-Integral Tactical Magwell
-Flat Mainspring Housing, checkered with a recessed lanyard loop
-Integral Plunger Tube
-Spare fitted extractor
-Top of Slide Serrated
-Rear of Slide Serrated - 40 LPI
-Beavertail grip safety with pad for positive disengagement
-Match hammer
-4 lb trigger pull
-Slotted grip screws
-Strider gunner grips custom fitted with beveled edges in green, black, or coyote brown
-Carry bevel package
-Visual ‘on fire’ indicator
-Extended Thumb Safety
-Tactical Extended Mag Release
-Reliability Package to Vickers Tactical specs
-Black Permacoat finish
-Vickers Tactical logo
-Special ‘LV’ serial number prefix
-Shipped with 2 magazines, test target, and Certificate of Authenticity
Any custom or semi-custom 1911 will easily top the $3000 mark when you add options & features like these. As a matter of fact many of these features can only be found on a VT/NH.
It was just an observation, relax.
I though about it, and from what I’ve seen, I’m not impressed for the price. IMO, once you get past 2K in a 1911, I expect much more attention to the little things. Even from looking at pictures, 1911s from the SA Pro Shop, Ed Brown or RRA are well past the “fit and finish”.
The time and labor put into the one I saw was a $1800 pistol tops, but add the Vickers Tactical logo, Special ‘LV’ serial number prefix and your up to the asking price;)
“Attention to detail”?
FYI- The ejector isn’t supposed to be serrated on a VT gun. That means LAV did not want it serrated on his guns. NH is building these guns to Larry spec’s, so nothing was missed or done incorrectly.
The sad reality is that the NH guns are production pistols with high quality parts. Very little goes into actually building them aside from the assembly. I know some would like to believe that little elves sit around with hand files and scotch brite pads but the truth is they build from a pile of parts and when one doesn’t fit right they take it out and try another. As posted, most of the work is being completed by the vendors and the add-ons that make the 10-8 and LAV models only adds up to about $150. All the way around I’d say the NH production models are grossly over priced.
I’d be curious to know what 1911s you think aren’t grossly overpriced? An Ed Brown at $2k? A Yost 1* at $1800? A Wilson CQB at $2k? A Les Baer at $1500?
I think a Rock Island Armory 1911 is seriously under priced.
I think they’d be overpriced if they were free.
Ball cuts ~ $100
Flush crown - free
Serrated & pinned front sight - standard
Vickers/Yam trigger - not more expensive, but offers fixed overtravel
25 LPI checkering - standard on NH pistols (when I bought mine)
Integral magwell with open front ~ $50 upgrade from a regular Caspian frame
Race-ready MSH w/lanyard loop ~ $50 premium? Not a standard NH part
Integral plunger tube - same price as a regular one
Spare fitted, serrated extractor ~ $75
Serrated slide top - standard
Rear of slide serrated - leaving out the ejector seems to be normal for NH, I can only guess that it’s easier to just work with the slide
Carry bevel - The bottom of the slide has a very subtle bevel, a nice touch not standard for NH
Extended mag catch - standard
Vickers reliability package - If the gun is built to numerical specifications outlined by Larry, the value of this could be extremely high. I would be willing to pay a substantial premium for a 1911 guaranteed to be stoppage-free. Interesting how many manufacturers offer precision guarantees, but none offer a reliability guarantee.
I think what Rob is stating is true. They are going after the crowd that knows the Vickers name and assumes he has put a hand on this gun. He’ll never see them or touch them, he just spec’d them out. I would have to agree with Big Bore as well, they are not worth the asking price IMHO. I don’t have any of the issues that BB saw on the Vickers with my “cheap” $1800 Wilson. I think that NHC has a good reputation but might be growing a wee bit too fast for them to handle. I expect perfection at the $3000 level. I gotta believe that Ken Hackathorn, Hilton Yam and Mr. Vickers are getting some rather nice incentives from NHC to talk them up so much.
DING DING DING! We have a winner. I have stayed out of this thread for various reasons, but it appears that most folks are missing why the Vickers model is more money.
As most of you know, I am building my own 1911. I have stated/hinted at the fact that I have found out a lot of “dirty little secrets” about the 1911 market. The fact remains that a production gun is a production gun (parts slapped together with very little hand work). The difference between the expensive ones and the cheap ones is quality parts used, name brand and not much else.
Those of you that have not had the pleasure to talk to and or know anything about LAV might have missed where the real value is in this NH/Vickers 1911. I think that there are VERY few people that know more about the 1911 than he does and even fewer have his Military background. The man knows his weapons and knows how to use them. So if he has given NH the keys to the palace (his tips, tricks & knowledge) then that makes the pistol worth it in my book.
C4
I would have to agree. I believe most big name companies are over priced for what you get. I have now purchased the parts for two 1911’s to be built. I also know the number of hours that will go into polishing/fitting/tunning them. The big boys do not spend the same amount of time or buy the same parts that I did, but will charge the same or more for their 1911’s than I do.
In their defense though, they have to have a dealer and Distr. program so they need to build in enough profit to cover that. I am removing the middle man which helps keep cost down.
C4
I guess this is where I get lost, the Vickers doesn’t seem to be fundamentally any different than a Talon or GRP. The same guys are building it and finishing it, how will Mr. Vickers telling them to use a cast Caspian frame and put a red dot on the safety gonna make it the same as a Vickers built gun?? I would agree he is one of the best but I could ask NHC to add a doodad here and there and call it the Glimpse Tactical and it wouldn’t really be any different.