I’ve been considering Ruger LCP’s lately. Several people I know are getting them, for example, because the LCP’s are so incredibly tiny and concealable (only about 9oz, and smaller dimensions than any wheelie I’ve ever seen). These guys also believe that the LCP’s are (or soon will be, when the “new model” teething issues are worked out) reliable enough for CC.
Ordinarily I haven’t considered a .380, it seems like a marginal caliber. Yet I agree that any CCW is better than none, and there are some situations where it’s either impossible to carry an ordinary-sized CCW in one of the larger calibers, or you just need a BUG.
So, I’m wondering: How many folks are, or would consider, using a Ruger LCP (or something similarly small) in .380 for occasional super-deep concealment carry, or as a BUG? If you wouldn’t use .380 for such uses, what ARE you using? For awhile I looked at the Bersa Thunder, a very well made .380, but the problem is they are practically as big as my M&P9 compact, so unless I could get a much smaller .380 (like the LCP), I decided it was better to just carry the M&P!
When I need to go small I have a Kahr E9. They were all steel and kind of heavy but very small and available in 9mm. There are a lot more ammo choices in 9mm than 380 so that is why I went that route.
Take a look at the Kahr CW9 or P9. They have polymer frames and are are pretty light.
There’s nothing marginal about it. .380 is a joke. Penetration is pathetic. Unless an attacker will allow you to put the gun to his head and pull the trigger, forget it.
Ruger will sell a ton of these silly guns though.
My deepest concealment scenario involves an G27 in an ankle rig, and it’s very rare that I have to ditch my full sized pistol and go that route.
Took my new LCP to the range for the first time yesterday. The jury is still out. It had three stoppages in 235 rounds, but it was reasonably accurate (6" at 25yd with the nearly non-existent iron sights, and a perfect 50 on the Dot Torture drill at 3yd). It’s much smaller and easier to carry than a j-frame, but the trigger mechanism creates a potential problem because if you short stroke it, the gun stops and you need to retract the slide manually to get it running again.
I’m hoping to have a full write-up on my site by tomorrow.
demi – I’ve never owned one, but have shot a few of them.
The main problem I have with the Kel Tec is that the company doesn’t seem concerned about durability. We spoke with them at SHOT’08 about it. To their credit, they have no problem sending you a brand new gun every few thousand rounds if you break your P3AT. Seriously, they told me that if I wanted to buy one, they’d send me a new one every six months for the rest of my life if I kept shooting them to death.
But – at least in theory – the LCP is supposed to be a little higher quality and hopefully more durable. Now it may just turn out that Kel Tec is honest whereas Ruger wont’ face the truth, but for now I’m betting on Ruger’s reputation for making pretty durable guns.
The P3ATs I’ve handled have all shot way off from POA. My single sample LCP shoots almost perfectly to POA.
I did talk to a guy at the range last week who owned both (P3AT and LCP) and he preferred the LCP but couldn’t really give me a good reason why.
I owned a 9mm Kahr but couldn’t trust it because of a 2% failure rate and problems with the trigger resetting so I sold it. From what I’ve read both LCPs and Kel-Tecs are generally unreliable and I don’t consider a .380 sufficient for self defence anyway so I carry a S&W J-frame for a BUG but I’m looking for something smaller. The Walther PPS in 9mm is not much larger than an LCP so it may be the best pocket pistol around. They are being released to dealers on an allocation basis and are hard as hell to find and they’re a little pricey but I’m anxious to test drive one.
Kel Tec sent some T&E guns for evaluation that did well for what they are. I have one that has now accumulated about 1800-1900 rounds without a problem. It shoots POA with Black Hills XTPs and Winchester Rangers. The expected lifespan is about 2500 rounds, so I expect issues are coming soon. Kel Tec said they’ll replace them when they wear out.
There are two LCPs in a pool of guns used at activities which are accumulating some rounds, but I can’t recall the number. They, too, are doing well.
The LCP is a v2.0 of the P3AT, and all indications are that it will be a good performer in the niche it’s designed to fill.
My dad brought home a Beretta M1934 from WWII and when I was in high school (about 40 years ago) a friend, who’s dad was a cop, got me some 380’s to shoot in it. I was out in the woods along Lake Michigan (now NP) and saw a squirrel on the side of a tree. I aimed for his head and squeezed off a shot. The Beretta shoots low, so the squirrel took the shot just behind the shoulder. I’ve seen this same shot drop a squirrel in its track with 22LR HP on a number of occasions. In this instance, the squirrel jumped to the ground and took off running, finally going into a hollow log. He eventually stuck his head out and I was able to end his suffering.
I would only carry a 380 if I had to but I wouldnt worry about it they have made great improvement in 380 since the 60’s. The same people will tell you 38special is a under powered round, but cops carried it for decades and seemed to do just fine. They may not be the biggest and most powerful rounds but I believe in my ability to place the shot where it needs to be no matter the caliber.
I have two Ruger LCP’s. There are 20,000 ser. #'s between my two examples. Retail price was $235.
The accuracy of these little buggers is astounding! Trigger is as good as I would want a trigger on a pocket pistol. It won’t win at Camp Perry, but our two guns both shoot right… dead… on… at 7 yards. Take your time and you cut one neat 1 inch hole (that’s why I bought the second one [that, and my wife took my first one]).
I have no reliability problems in 200 plus rounds between them. Ammo used was Winchester ‘Target’ and Remington 95GR HP’s.
I can forget about re-loading my brass with these guns as the extractor rips a chunk right out of the case, and throws the case about 20 yards perpendicular to the direction of fire.
The Ruger LCP is a fantastic thing to carry… when you can’t carry a gun with you. Fits the pocket perfectly for me.
I never notice the recoil of these pistols either… until about two hour later when my lower palm starts to ache a bit and the fingers start to tremor slightly.
If you would have told me 2 years ago that my main combat handgun was going to be a Smith & Wesson, and that my EDC/BUG was going to be a Ruger, I would have said you were crazy.
This review at Gun Reports was generally positive about the LCP, though the writer noted a problem with very early models that has now been fixed. Supposedly the ejection was too strong, and the spent cases all had tears in the rim. Now that those issues have been fixed, the author said the only things the LCP needs in his opinion are: rougher grips, taller/more visible sights, and a mag extension.
The day the LCP was revealed at SHOT I told Ken Jorgenson the slide ought to be milled for a press-in front sight so users could replace it with an XS BDT.
But, in its performance niche, the regular sights will be OK. Would not be shocked if Ruger soon offered it with a CTC LG on it from the factory.
I’ve never owned a Kel-Tec, but at my agency the reviews from officers that use them have been 50/50. They either work or they don’t.
The one I had ran well over 200 ball and Golden Sabres with nary a bobble and hit POA.
Whenever asked by the men and women at my department about backup choices I recommend Airweight/Scandium J-frame and mini-Glocks. I’ve now added the LCP as a BUG if the other two choices are too big, or as a tertiary weapon.
P.S. Not ignoring M&P subcompacts, just haven’t used one yet.
Too bad we cannot have access to the Glock 28, in .380. Looks like an awesome pocket pistol.
Given the interest in a very tiny pocket pistol like this, and Glock’s reputation for reliable guns, I couldn’t believe this thing isn’t being sold in every gun store. So I looked it up, and found out that the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits the import of foreign guns made in calibers that are not for “sporting purposes.” Grrrrrrr! You know, not only was this law ORIGINALLY unconstitutional, it should be even more clear that it needs to be scrapped now, in light of Heller.
I don’t see any niche that the .380 can fill well. No matter how small you make the gun, the cartridge isn’t ballistically efficent enought to warrant carrying. You’d be far better served with a Kahr PM-9 or a J-frame if you need a deep concealment gun. Remember, the .380 is so anemic that it does not require a locked breech to contain it - that should be a clue.
I think one could describe the niche as the least inconvenient, smallest possible without being a .22/25, deepest concealment, better than nothing role. It does indeed do well there.
I’ve been able to secret the P3AT in several carry modes and places that the J-frame and KelTec would not go. The Kahr, mostly for its weight.
It’s certainly not a primary HG, definitely suboptimal as a BUG, but it’s not without utility.
