Hopefully you feel better now.
All pistols, regardless of design, are simple devices that don’t require much thought…I can understand it being hard for some people however.
While there are pieces of technical merit in you post, you’re just another person who has an opinion that they try to sell as fact.
The first 14 years of my LEO career we carried DA/SA S&W pistols. We did not cock the hammer when presenting from the holster, the first shot was always DA. On the first shot the trigger was manipulated like you would a revolver trigger.
After the pistol was presented toward the threat, shots were fired and you were looking for additional threats, we were trained to leave the pistol in SA mode and move the trigger finger outside the trigger guard. Once the pistol was no longer needed, it was decocked and returned to the holster.
In a rapid engagement, combat accuracy while either shooting DA or SA was not a problem. The second strike capability should a round not fire was not a consideration. We were taught to clear the round out of the pistol before another attempt at firing the pistol.
Once you Master the DA/SA pistol you are able to shoot the first DA round by manipulating the trigger like a revolver trigger, then manipulating the trigger like you would a SA pistol. Personally, I did not change the position of the finger on the trigger, I just pressed the trigger in a slightly different manner so that I would not push the rounds off target.
Your aim won’t change, but your sight wobble will. With a solid shooting platform the weapon won’t move much differently than when shooting a SA only pistol and combat accuracy is attainable when shooting quickly.
While my SA/DA experience was brief(I converted the gun to SAO), I never had SA throw shots off. I practiced most of my dryfiring in DA and it made the SA feel like cheating.
If you don’t pull the trigger until the sights are lined up on target, and you use proper trigger control, the shot breaking earlier than expected should not impact shot placement - at least it never did for me.
All that said, I moved to striker and prefer it. I also don’t train to pull the trigger on a dead round fwiw. IMO something is wrong and you need to fix it ASAP. How often does a second strike actually fire the round? I honestly don’t know - never experienced it in centerfire.
As many have said…it’s all about practice and training. That is true regardless of your firearm of choice.
Do you have formal training on a DA/SA gun?
As for the OP, when I use a DA/SA gun, whenever I come off target, I de-cock the gun. Always.
Many of the DA/SA pistols I know of also decock when you put them on safe. That being said, I’m not a connoisseur, so I’m sure I’ll get corrected.
With the exception of the Taurus knock off of the Beretta 92FS, that is what I have seen.
HK DA/SA’s don’t, you can carry them cocked and locked, just like a 1911 if you want.
My CZSP-01 doesn’t decock, you can leave it cocked and locked.
If the pistol will allow you to safely carry it in single action mode, that is the way I would suggest you carry it in most circumstances. If it is a traditional DA/SA weapon, I recommend shooting it like you would a revolver.
DA/SA - you are already used to firing a striker fired handgun, those all have some degree of reset, so you should be good to go on the SA, correct? The only ‘different’ thing you really need to train is the difference between the first and second shot, and really the biggest problem that most shooters will have is a tendency to want to stage the DA pull. Don’t…do…that! Focus on a good smooth stroke. With a DA/SA the DA shot is your money shot, it has to be fast and accurate, it should be the fight stopper.
Dry fire. Don’t change finger placement, trigger on the distal side of the crease of the last joint of your trigger finger - too far in, past the crease, and you’ll more than likely pull the rounds more or less straight to the right (right handed shooter); too far out and you will more than likely push the rounds to the left. Because of the longer, heavier, trigger pull, you may have more tendency to ‘milk’ the grip by squeezing with the other three fingers, watch that during dry fire. If I’m watching you dry fire, I watch the hammer, it should move back at the same speed until it flips forward - no pause, no variation in speed. You can do the ‘put the dime or penny on the slide’ thing, but, really, just watch your sights.
IMO, until you get the DA stoke down, don’t worry about the transition to the SA shot, back in the 80’s when we were teaching auto transition courses, this, the transition to the SA shot, was the biggest deal because all of our shooters already were familiar with the DA revolver; in the case of going from SA or striker fired auto pistol, the opposite is true. Dry fire until you are incapable of anything but a smooth DA stroke. Then start dry firing focusing on contacting the trigger and beginning the DA stroke as you press out to full extension - remember, the first shot is the money shot.
When you feel comfy with that, a several session process, find a safe place, go through your dry-fire prep protocol, then sit your butt down and hold the pistol in the strong hand, dry-fire the DA stroke, pin the finger to the rear and reset as you cycle the pistol with the support hand, then press through the SA stroke. On most DA/SA autos you’ll be able to repeat the drill with out cycling and decocking to get another DA pull, so it is a quick evolution. Start slow and then speed up. I try to go just to the reset, but there are valid concerns that cutting it this fine may on occasion lead a shooter to not hit the reset.
Now start serious live fire.
Some mistakes that I see folks making in manipulation - one of the biggest, decocking the danged thing before the fight is for sure over, don’t get in a hurry to decock - if another shot is needed make sure it is a SA press - I would suggest - follow the threat down, finger on the trigger with the trigger reset, ensure the person is no longer a threat, finger off the trigger as you widen your vision to the front, then decock as you do the full area scan. Another biggie on weapons with safeties (versus decockers) is decocking the weapon and not sweeping the safety up into the disengaged position - the DA pull is your safety. Some folks also want to decock before reloading??? or after reloading??? Don’t…do…that!!!
Why complicate the operation with extra controls?? I agree that the operation of handguns isn’t the most difficult of tasks, but again, why add more controls and steps then are necessary? The more possibilities you add to a situation, the longer it takes for your brain to decide on which course of action is correct(look up Hick’s law). Minimize your manual of arms and minimize your potential for making the wrong choice. All while maximizing your ability to focus on what is important, making hits.
Please indicate where I am posting opinion over fact???
MM
I guess my point is that if you aren’t trained to remain calm enough to flick off a safety or manage a DA to SA pull transition, you aren’t going to hit squat to begin with.
Make sense now?
This.
Hick’s Law deals with cognitive choices. Proper training moves beyond cognitive skills into the subconscious (aka “muscle memory”). If you train correctly, you don’t have to make a choice because the action is automatic. If you train with a specific gun and practice with that specific gun, you will perform the way you practice. If you practice to flip off the safety every time you reactively un-holster, you will eventually not have to think about flipping off the safety.
Training is nothing more than creating habits. You don’t choose to perform a habit, you just do it because you always do. (look up classical conditioning; i.e. Pavlov’s dog experiment)
If you use the gun enough you’ll learn it.
I grew up with revolvers, then DA/SA pistols, then came the striker fired guns. (Didn’t spend too much time with 1911’s/SA guns)
Learn the revolver you’ll appreciate the DA/SA. Learn that and you’ll appreciate the striker-fired pistols. Shoot them all enough and you can stay proficient with all of them.
I like the extra margin of safety that comes with the DA first trigger pull. The problem is I don’t like the DA/SA guns available. I don’t like manual safeties and I don’t like slide mounted decockers. (sorry Beretta, Ruger, others…) The best pistols I’ve found that have a frame-mounted decock-only lever and DA/SA are the Sigs.
However I prefer Glock magazines, simplicity, and lightness so…I carry a glock 19. But If I really wanted the DA/SA type I’d go with Sig.
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