I find the blurb he is now adding to his emails somewhat interesting.
I was not trying to start a battle with you at all. I disagreed with some of the things that you said concerning the quality of High Standard. I disagree that High Standard builds rifles for the military because I know which rifles I have been issued. I disagree that anything High Standard makes could come close to comparing with offerings, much less exceeding said offerings, from respectable companies. I also disagree that anything that I have said in these emails or posted on the forum from these emails is false. That being said, I am human, am not all-knowing and can make mistakes so if anything that I have said is wrong, I apologize. On that note, I do not need you to correct me because I know that many of the things that you have said throughout this conversation are completely wrong. Your opinion of High Standard is very high and that is fine, but it is an opinion and a misguided one at that. Build quality is based on facts. Better materials, workmanship and quality control lead to better products, regardless of the product in question.
By the way, the posts that I have made on the forums are exact “copy and paste” from these emails and I feel that it would be beneficial for you and your superiors to have a look at the posts along with replies from actual users, so once again, just let me know if you want the link and I would be more than happy to give it to you.
One last thing, I am not going to buy the “AR-Lite” or “AR-Operator” so if these emails are keeping you from speaking with potential customers, you don’t have to worry about continuing to try to convince me of the quality of your rifles. As I said early in our conversation, if your rifles were made by a company that I had some respect for, I was planning on picking one up and upgrading it with some spare parts that I have, but since it is manufactured by who it is, I am not interested in taking the chance of ordering one and be dissatisfied.
Shane,
Once again you are incorrect in your assertions regarding High Standard and the information that you are claiming is false. It is easily dispelled through public information put forth by the US Government. Our rifle exceeds the quality of any entry level AR on the market today.
Also, we are a young company that employs 150 small town Americans working hard every day to manufacture quality products right here in the USA. That speaks volume to our commitment to quality. Certainly we have had our issues but those are growing pains any company goes through and our customers would dispel many of the postings that exist in the forum you are a part of. We are very proud to represent what is right in America and we are even more proud of putting Americans back to work and once again setting the world standard in craftsmanship.
Have a great day!
XXXXX X XXXXXXXX
This document may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are on notice that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
distribution, or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the
electronically transmitted materials is prohibited.
This document may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are on notice that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
distribution, or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the
electronically transmitted materials is prohibited.
I never said anything about the products that your company makes as I haven’t used them and I don’t ever gain an opinion, good or bad, about something until I have had experience with it. I never said that you worked for a bad company, nor did I say that your company does anything that I disagree with. The partnership that your company has made with High Standard, in my opinion, is a poor choice of partnership. You mentioned in a previous email that the rifle that High Standard built for USA Ammo is better than entry level rifles from BCM, Colt, LMT and Daniel Defense (the industry leaders). There are 2 problems with that statement. Those companies only offer high end rifles, so their “entry-level” is bounds ahead of other companies “top of the line” offerings. And the other problem with that statement is an entry level Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, Doublestar, Panther Arms etc (not the industry leaders) are still decent rifles for a particular niche. That niche is the weekend shooter that may only put a few hundred rounds into a paper target a year. When you start beating on those rifles using it as a tool, they fail and have to be upgraded. From my experience with High Standard (which is far from extensive, but I’ve had a little) tells me that an HS rifle won’t even serve it’s user as well as the entry-level midrange manufacturers. Now, you are dead-set on insisting that HS has a government contract. I can assure you that they do not make AR pattern rifles for the military. If they have any contract with any part of the DoD, it is a very small contract making insignificant parts. So once again, you are not going to sell me on an HS rifle.
I am assuming that since I have offered a link to the thread that lists this conversation in it’s entirety along with plenty of replies from people who buy and use AR platform rifles (not trying to say they are experts, but these are the people buying things that you are trying to sell, you might want to pay attention to their thoughts/needs/wants etc.) that you are not interested in anything other than making the sell to someone that is uninformed. If you were really as sure about your product as you say you are, it would seem that you would be interested in what the buying public thinks. Then again, the business that I am in has nothing to do with sales or making customers happy so I could be completely wrong.
OK, OK. We get it. He thinks he has a good product but you don’t. Let the guy get back to his job. You don’t have to “prove yourself” on here by finding a company making non-spec ARs and beating them to the ground.
I think the point has been made.
I wasn’t trying to prove myself to you. I was simply putting out some information that I thought was significant. If you don’t think it is, or if it has changed your day in some way, you don’t have to open this thread. Also, I wasn’t beating the guy or the company to the ground. As far as I can tell by going back and reading through everything, neither him nor I have said anything in bad taste to each other, we have simply had a debate.
Guys I’ve watched this thread develop and quite honestly it is embarrassing to me as an American. Shane, have you held this rifle? You claim a lot of stuff in your posts and they are wrong man. Just go to this link: http://www.highstandard.com/customers.html#law
This company you are bashing has been around longer than your grand father dude and done some pretty amazing stuff. I am a member of the US military and my fellow soldiers don’t run around beating up on American businesses dude. This is really disgraceful.
I bought some bad ammo from USA Ammo this summer and they stepped right up to the plate and took very good care of me, no bs or questions asked.
Did you check the urls yourself man? If you had you would be eating crow bro. The guy didn’t say this rifle was the machine we carry in the desert. The e-mails posted on here clearly say it is an entry level rifle, for the beginner.
Would I buy one, probably not typically, but I want to buy one now just because of all the foolishness in this thread. Have all the facts before you start beating up on people.
The real facts are none of you guys have seen the rifle, none of you have owned a HS rifle and none of you can speak from an intelligent view point. Let’s be real and stop dishing on our fellow Americans.
Welcome to M4C.net.
I have owned a High Standard rifle and it was NOT milspec in any way shape or form, other than the barrel contour perhaps. While the lower receiver was machined very nicely and was in spec, in the end it was, along with the rest of the rifle, sold to fund improvements being made to my SBR.
The barrel was 4140 steel, w/ M4 feed ramps. The upper was an A3 flat top w/ no feed ramps. The bolt carrier was semi-auto, and the bolt itself was not MPI/HPT. The receiver extension was commercial diameter. The FSB was not F marked. The barrel was neither MPI or HPT. The barrel was not chrome lined.
Thus High Standard’s claims of adhering to the military specifications of the M4 Carbine are false as are USA Ammo’s rep claiming that this rifle is used by the military and/or DOD.
fwiw i dont think he actually claimed that this rifle was used by the military and/or DOD.
he only claimed that the manufacturer provides or has provided some (unspecified) goods to them.
I stand corrected; however, supply of a .22 pistol to the OSS over 60 years ago does not give HSA a pass in this case. I believe DPMS even provided charging handles to the DOD at one point in time but that does not mean that the rest of the products measure up to the standard.
Where did the USA Ammo dude say the rifle was used by the US military? Not in any of the posts Shane put up here. Get the facts straight dude.
I’ve owned a HS AR in the past and it has some components that are mil spec. Is it a rifle used in combat, no. Let’s face it, COLT and many other supposed superior brands advertise the same thing but they aren’t mil spec if they are sold to a civilian. I liked the rifle but I’ve started started a family and those sort of toys are out of reach due to other obligations.
The company did not provide the URLs, and the one you posted doesn’t say which components they make for the military.
I didn’t bash High Standard, I do question the claims made (not by High Standard). If I say that our products are used by LE and the military, I can prove it, and will provide evidence. It’s on the company that makes these statements to provide proof, and I still haven’t seen any yet. Not that they do not exist, I just haven’t seen them.
When asked about details of our own products, we happily answer them, we don’t think it’s unusual for folks to want to know what it is they may be buying, they’re doing their due diligence and we typically provide more information than necessary. Personally (not as a company rep on m4c), I think it’s kind of passive aggressive to say the info is out there, go find it, when the company can, and should provide it.
High Standards list from the link calisgt supplied:
“A few highlights for the Military and Law enforcement throughout the past 80 years:
•WWII servicemen and beyond were trained on the High Standard 22.
•High Standard 22 pistol with slincer to the Department of Defense Office Of Strategic Studies(OSS)
•WWII Pimary contractor for 50 cal browning
•Viet-Nam war manufacture of M2 carbine slide
•One of the biggest suppliers of riot shotguns”
Please don’t start this nonsense with Colt again. Colt’s reputation and the sum of the parts is well known.
definitely agree.
He did not say it in so many words, but when a representative insinuates and throws out words like military, DOD, police, etc. without substantiating the claims…it gets shady. I feel like the ‘burden of proof’ is a lot heavier on a manufacturer, retailer, when throwing those words around.
Maybe we should just place this into “We don’t know” until someone respected by the forum reviews this rifle for what it is or is not. Could this rifle be a good buy for someone just wanting a AR for casual plinking a few times a year maybe. But on the other side the serious shooter or operator may find flaws which may make it unsuitable to their needs.
Personally I would possibly own a rifle like this to place it at a BUG out location were it only see’s a few magazines of ammo a year. Would it be a primary rifle for my income bracket I doubt it but for the guy or gal making minimum wage maybe so.
The information on their AR is on the website. They have provided the same amount of information that any other manufacturer provides. Where in the e-mails did the dude refuse to provide information? More crap.
When are we as Americans going to unite and stop tearing each other apart? No wonder the Koreans are providing ammo and the Taiwanese are making guns. Let’s give this a rest.
Thanks for the logical post man. These dudes in here make suckatash out of red meat. The purveyor of this gun never represented it as a machine used in the field. I know for a fact that HS makes some pretty decent rifles for bumming around with rec use. This is probably perfect for the newly crowned weekend warrior wanting to go out to the range to hang with the fellas.