US Navy gets new camo. Marines Object to desert pattern

Woodland was good enough for everyone in the 80’s. Now every branch needs its own fashion consultant

By Mark D. Faram
mfaram@militarytimes.com

The Navy’s top officer has approved a new digital version of the woodland and desert camouflage uniforms for sailors, who could be wearing them as early as October.

Yet the service, when announcing the decision Dec. 29, backed off on the promise that these new versions of the Navy Working Uniform — Type II for desert use and Type III for woodland — would be worn by all sailors who now wear the existing desert and woodland cammies.

That’s still the case for the new woodlands, which will officially replace the old woodlands that for years were worn by every service member in the military.

The real change is in the rules for the new desert uniform, which will be worn only by sailors assigned to Naval Special Warfare Command and those supporting those units.

Sailors outside that circle will continue to wear the legacy, tri-color desert camouflage uniform.

Multiple sources con firmed to Navy Times that most deployed sailors won’t wear the new digital desert uni form because of the Marines, who believe the desert version looks too much like theirs.

While Navy officials aren’t commenting on the service’s deliberations with the Corps, a spokesman for Commandant Gen. James Con way acknowledged that uniform similarities, in general, are a concern for Marine leadership.

“The Navy’s new uniform did generate some discussion among senior leadership,” said Maj. David Nevers, Conway’s spokesman.

“The Marine Corps’ principal interest here is in maintaining a sufficiently distinctive uniform to enable an observer to know at a glance that he is looking at a Marine.

“If the camouflage pattern is similar, but the color different enough to avoid confusion, we’re OK with that — the Navy under stood the concern and worked with us to resolve the issue to our mutual satisfaction.”

He did not comment on what the sources said about the desert uniform.

Safer at war

The Type II and III uniforms are organizational clothing, which means they will not replace the blue-and-gray NWU Type I, which everyone in the Navy must own.

“That means that it’s only issued to those individuals who are assigned to specific commands and have a reason for wearing the desert or woodland uniform,” said Capt. Vince Drouillard, who han dles uniform board issues for the chief of naval personnel.

He contrasted that with the blue cammies, which are purchased by the sailor.

The two new uniforms were developed by Naval Special War fare Development Group, Drouillard said.

Among other things, that unit does research and development for SEALs.

“As a result of their work, these two patterns were selected because of the reduced visual sig nature they provide for each oper ational environment,” Drouillard said.

“This, we feel, will increase the probability of mission success and survivability in all kinds of combat environments.”

Sources said the uniforms have classified aspects, which include a reduced infrared signature.

Although the colors are different, the digital pattern for the woodland uniform is identical to the Corps’ and Army’s, and the blue-and-gray NWU.

For both new uniforms, sailors are expected to wear insignia and name tapes in the same manner as they do for the blue cammies.

Sailors will also be provided a camouflage parka for cold weather, and they will wear the eight point cover.

But one thing you won’t see is the Navy’s logo — anchor, Constitution and eagle — embroidered on the pocket.

“With the tactical nature of the uniforms, we didn’t want to have any insignia that was unnecessary and take away from the camouflage features of the uniform,” he said.

But the ACE will still be featured in a small version throughout the design pattern, as it is with the blue cammies, Drouillard said.

Marines cried foul

Both the digital desert and woodland versions were originally planned to be a one-for-one replacement of the existing non digital uniforms worn by ground sailors, called the camouflage utility uniform.

For the woodland, this is still the case. Once it hits the streets, Type III will be the primary garrison uniform for at least 45,000 sailors.

Most of those, about 40,000, belong to Navy Expeditionary Combat Command and include Seabees, explosive ordnance disposal technicians and riverines.

And as many as 5,000 other sailors in non-NECC units are also authorized to wear a camouflage uniform either full time or while deployed.

Most individual augmentees will continue to wear the Army uniform.

“Type III will replace the existing three-color woodland uniforms in the system, and that uniform will be phased out for good,” Drouillard said.

But not everyone wearing wood lands today will switch to the digi tal greens.

Navy security force sailors assigned to Navy Installations Command will wear the blue cammies, according to a Dec. 29 Navy-wide message.

The larger surprise came from the decision to bar non-SEAL sailors from wearing the new digital desert uniform, instead requiring them to wear the legacy desert cammies.

So only sailors with SpecWar units — about 7,000 per sonnel — will wear the new desert uniform.

That’s a shift from the Navy’s mantra since Task Force Uniform started in 2004.

At the time, officials said the NWU — in all its forms — eventually would replace the existing desert and woodland uniforms with updated digital uni forms, among other uniforms.

Multiple sources within the Navy and Marine Corps familiar with the deliberations told Navy Times that the Corps objected to conven tional sailors wearing the desert digital uniform because it was too similar to the Marine pattern.

Had the Navy modified either the design of the pattern or the colors, the Marines would have relented, the sources said.

The Corps, those same sources said, had no similar objection to the Navy’s new woodland pattern, which features a light green where the Marines have light brown.

None of the sources wanted to be named, because of the sensitivities of discussing internal delibera tions between the two services.

The compromise, the sources said, was that rank-and-file sailors would not be allowed to wear the new desert digital pattern, despite the Navy’s admission that the uniforms are substantially better and provide better pro tection visually on the battlefield.

SEALs were separate because they come under U.S. Special Operations Command.

That idea didn’t sit well with Information Systems Technician 2nd Class (SW) Justin Goldstine, who is in Ramadi, Iraq.

“They should give it to all personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan,” he said.

“Yes, the uniforms might be close to the [Marine pattern], but aren’t the Marines also part of the Navy?”

Goldstine deployed with the Army and was issued the Army Combat Uniform.

But he pur chased the Navy’s current desert cammies on his own “so I can look like a sailor again,” even though he says he has “issues” with it.

If the new Type II offers an improvement in comfort and protection, he said, then all sailors deserve to wear it.

“The legacy [desert uniforms] in Iraq and Afghanistan for [individual augmentee] personnel were made for personnel behind desks and admin positions,” Goldstine said.

“I work on communications gear and always outside, and the [desert uniform] was not comfort able and was not made for that kind of work.”

Timeline

The final designs of the uniform will be decided after “conformance tests” take place this summer.

But officials say the uniforms are close to what they’ll end up being.

Still, Drouillard said, the confor mance test could change the final look of the uniform.

For example, that could include whether sailors feel both top and bottom pockets should be on the uniform blouse.

The blue cammies have no lower pockets on the blouse, so it can be tucked in.

Those tests will begin in July and go for about six weeks, said Andy Hu, program manager for the new uniforms at Naval Facili ties Engineering Command.

“Testing will primarily be in the Norfolk fleet concentration area,” Hu said.

“Though specific units have not been identified, the testing will be performed by Navy expeditionary ground forces and consist of about 150 sailors from the EOD, Seabee and SpecWar communities — the desire is to get the voice of the expeditionary sailor; the feedback will confirm fit, form and material wear as a result of expected daily use by test subjects in performance of their typical duties during testing.”

Exactly when sailors will get to wear the uniforms hasn’t been determined, but Hu said that because of the development work done by SOCom and the Navy Clothing and Textile Research Facility in Natick, Mass., “we expect successful results from the conformance tests, which would allow us to begin fielding the uni forms in 2011.”

WHAT’S INCLUDED

The Type II and III Navy Working Uniforms are considered unisex, like the blue version.

They include:

Camouflage blouse and trousers.

Brown cotton undershirt.

Black boot socks.

Blousing straps.

Navy-certified desert tan or brown brushless boots.

Belts: Can be the standard 1¼-inch black cotton, nylon or elastic woven web belt with black tip and black open-face buckle or a 1¾-inch black or tan one-piece adjustable nylon webbing riggers belt with forged steel buckle, D-ring and hook and loop fastener.

Eight-point utility cap.

Embroidered collar devices for E-4 and above. Service and name tapes.

Parka with a matching cammie pattern, including a removable tan fleece liner and slip-on rank insignia.

Black knit watch cap.

Optional components:

Smooth black leather boots.

Brown boot socks.

Earmuffs (with parka only).

Black leather gloves.

Earrings: gold ball for female E-7 and above, silver ball for female E-6 and below.

WHO GETS IT

Sailors at these commands will wear the Type III Navy Working Uniform, replacing their current woodland camouflage utility uniforms. The complete list of commands and units who wear the woodland CUU and will get the Type III cammies is also online at navytimes.com / whogets_NWU_TypeIII.

Navy Expeditionary Combat Command (during weapons qualifications and specific duties associated with operations, exercises and deployments)

Naval Construction Force

Naval Beach Group

Naval Special Warfare Command

Explosive ordnance disposal units

Navy fleet hospital units

Mobile diving and salvage units

Navy cargo handling and port groups

Naval Expeditionary Logistics Support Force

Naval Security Force

Naval coastal warfare community

Fleet Aviation Specialized Operational Training Group, Atlantic and Pacific

Fleet Imaging Command

Pacific Military Sealift Command offices and area commands (when deployed)

Reserve Navy Combat Documentation Detachment 206

Maritime defense zone forces

Fleet Information Warfare Center

Mobile Ashore Support Terminal

Mobile Integrated Command Facility and field-deploying communications deception and psychological warfare units

Tactical control groups and squadrons (when deployed)

Reserve Patrol Wing Atlantic 0186 (when deployed)

EA-6B tactical electronic warfare squadrons and operational detachment members (when deployed)

Inshore boat squadron and associated inshore boat units

Navy Center for Tactical Systems Interoperability detachments and NCTSI Headquarters (when deployed)

Commander, U.S. Naval Forces, Korea

Special projects patrol squadrons (when deployed)

Commander, Naval Forces Alaska (when working under arduous field conditions)

Fleet Maritime Patrol Mobile Operations Control Center Atlantic (during weapons qualifications and specific duties associated with operations, exercises and deployments)

Strategic Communications Wing 1 (when deployed and associated with specific operations/exercises)

Detachment Combat Camera

Atlantic Fleet Composite Squadron 6 (when deployed)

Joint commands Naval Consolidated Brig Charleston, S.C. (when associated with specific operations/exercises)

Fleet public affairs subordinate commands (during missions ashore including operations, exercises and contingencies)

Source: Navy Personnel Command

I’m surprised that the Navy would care that the Marines object to the desert pattern. Last I looked the Marines fall under the Department of the Navy.

Every service branch should adopt the Marine-spec BDU. Why not? It seems to be the best option- better than ACU or woodland, that’s for sure.

The USMC should consider it a compliment!:smiley:

Actually, ACU might not be the most effective, but I think it’s the most fashionable. Looks good worn…

It’s not that simple. The National Security Act of 1940 something made them separate services.

The National Security Act of 1947 made them separate and equal services under the Department of the Navy. The Boy’s Department and the Men’s Department both answer to SECNAV. :smiley:

The Navy has gone completely batshit crazy on uniforms.

Look at other recent abortions from my former service:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot…:confused:

Now these I can get behind, old school cool

Alpha Sierra,where are your “Cracker Jacks” ? :wink:

My beloved CORPS needs to put a larger EGA on front. :smiley:

Yes they went batshit crazy. The new NWU is so much worse than the previous working uniform we had to wear…

I mean i would defently love to look like a prisoner or gas station attendent than some one of the armed forces :wink:

What is wrong with replacing 3 differnt working uniforms with 2? No more working whites to worry about. No more working blues to worry about. No more working whites/blues inspections depending on what time of the year is coming up.

The NWU is a nice looking low maint working uniform. It requires no ironing, you dont have to worry about putting military creases in it to look good or stand out, you dont have to worry about shirt stays or it coming un tucked and looking sloppy. Its comfortable, wears easy and looks sharp. Something I can not say about the previous working uniform.

Anything has to be better than the old dungarees.

Whites were a nightmare, Johnny Cash’s were plain uncomfortable.

Outside of actual practical reasons for choosing one camo pattern over another I find the whole notion of service specific camouflage abundantly retarded.

I’ve yet to meet a Marine (in or out of uniform) that didn’t inform me of his “service” within about 15 seconds of conversation.

They’re like Texans. :stuck_out_tongue:

while I don’t really care (nor do they about our opinion) on what the Navy wears, I do think it’s rather silly to wear camo on a ship!

and I am ex Navy…

heck, my son (12) has asked me “uh, dad, do we really need to wear camo sitting in this deer blind?”

he had a point…

There are other sources of informatiom that tell a different story. You might want to read those.

That is what the fleet name is. They are a little hot in the summer in Florida. Why yes they look slightly fucked I do have to say that I get more compliments from them that I ever did from the old. They do have advantages that you can stop pretty much anywhere on the way from home without getting in trouble.

The office uniform they took the johnny cash pants along with the marine dress shirt. Added some collar device and carried over the cunt cap. There you go. They still have the cracker jacks and the dress whites.

Dan

Marines are very proud… and vain (I know I was active duty for 5 years, just got out 7 months ago.) They like to stick out in the croud as Marines. As far as the the Marine Corps being part of the department of the Navy, no disrespect but it is a little ignorant to try and compare both branches. If you want to join the Marines do you go to a Navy or Marine recruter? We don’t wear the same uniform or bear the same name. There is a reason for that, we aren’t the same.

As a former Marine all I have to say is, " imitation is the ultimate form of flattery" :smiley:

Hahaha well put!!!

C’mon Rugby, you and I both know the answer to the old saying that the Marine Corps is a dept of the Navy…yeah, the MENS dept !!!

Now all you squids dont get your panties in a bunch, I’m just displaying a little friendly “inter-service rivalry”!!!

I think its funny that the Nay went through all this trouble for their spec ops guys to wind up looking like Marines in the end. I knew all you Navy guys harbored some “Marine-envy”!!!

When I was a kid, it was not uncommon to see Naval aviators (officers) wearing the Marine Corps dress green uniform.

Same as his but nowhere near as much brass

Summer version

Outside of a week at Quantico for USMC intro in the summer of 86, I never wore camo in the service.

For the most part I wore these:

It may seem like a USMC uniform, and it is similar in cut and color, but it was a 100% Navy uniform called Aviation Working Green.

Major differences include the black tie, brown shoes, lack of belt on the blouse, Navy buttons in black, and rank worn as traditional Navy stripes (black braid) on the sleeve cuffs instead of metal devices on the shoulder straps.