Hey guys. Tried to search but struggled with the right phrase to turn up anything. First AR build. Need some help on how I should proceed with the upper/barrel assembly. Looking to do as much as I can at home. I don’t mind buying the necessary tools, actually I want them. (I’m a tool junky…:D)
Got in on a Sniper’s Hide upper/lower receiver group buy. JD Machine did the trimmings with the SH logo rollmark on it. JD did a great job and it came out very good.
I want a 14.5" LW midlength barrel, a 12" DD lite rail, and a Troy Claymore perm’d on the end of it.
My question is regarding the perm attach of the Claymore. I’m thinking that the barrel nut has to go on the barrel first (loose). Then the Claymore attached? I’m assuming the DD lite barrel nut/receiver attachment hardware cannot go over the Claymore, please correct me if I’m wrong.
Or should I send the pile-o-parts to Adco and have assemble the upper complete??
I should probably just contact Adco since I plan to have them pin the Troy device on but I’m interested in hearing some input anyway.
Just like all good operations, builds should be rehearsed. I can’t tell you for certain if specific parts will fit over others, but I know from experience that you should mock-up all builds before building the final product. This will help you figure out the sequence as well as making sure all parts fit properly.
Or, you can just send it to the pros, but you won’t learn anything that way.
Good luck, and be sure to post a picture of the final product. It looks great so far!
Edit*************
I couldn’t help but notice, it looks like you didn’t stake the castle nut yet. You should do this. It’ll hold much better than loc-tite.
You are correct. I’m waiting on a Noveske QD endplate before I stake it. And I still want to do the set screw mod for the selector spring/detent. Thanks
Specifically, I’m wondering if anyone has measured the smallest ID of the DD lite rails special barrel nut. Anyone know offhand? I will also inquire to DD.
Have you purchased the 14.5" barrel yet? If not, I would probably reconsider going with a 16" middy instead so as to avoid the issues of having a permenant muzzle device.
I have a 14.5 w/ a permenant flash hider to bring the length out. I put an ARMS #46 on it when I got it since that was the only way to add a free floated rail system at the time (2003-2004 I think). Once that muzzle device is on, it’s on. I’ve seen people try and remove them, but it has ruined the threads to the point that they are unusable.
The DD barrel nut will in all probability fit over the flash hider, but it will not fit over any gas block that is installed, and it cannot make it over the barrel extension unless you pull the barrel extension off with a barrel extension wrench. I have never tried this before because I honestly don’t think that I’d be able to get it EXACTLY right again. And even if the headspace was still acceptable, the front sight would likely be canted one way or the other I figure. You can avoid this by using a front sight / gas block that is of a two piece design like the YHM models, so there is a way around it if you must.
Earlier this year I had a friend of a friend send me a 14.5 SOCOM upper with a permenant FH attached and a standard front sight. He wanted a midlength LaRue rail installed, but there is simply no way to remove enough of the front sight to have a LaRue fit around it, so the barrel was unusable for the project and had to be replaced. That front sight ultimately had to be cut off so that a 2 piece YHM flip sight could be used with a standard length YHM rail system. Not overly sexy, but it was functional and served as a good present to Dad…
Another consideration you should make is that if you ever think that a sound suppressor may be in your future, it will make the replacement of the barrel a necessity.
If you just have to have the 14.5 / perm flash hider set-up, then have the flash hider permenantly installed only AFTER having the rest of the upper assembled.
Very good info. Thank you.
Sound suppressors are a no-go in Michigan. If that possibility arises, I’ll just do another upper. I’m already planning on how the “next” build will be configured!! I’ve got the BRD so they say…
In the back of my head, I am debating the 16 vs 14.5 barrel equation.
I’ve read a million “which should I get?” threads and I still keep arriving at getting what I want.
You should always get what you want after considering all of the options. To do otherwise will cause nothing but nagging discontent after the project is finished.
I just thought I’d throw some of the liabilities inherant to your plan of action. There’s a big difference in how a 14.5 and a 16" M4 looks with standard carbine handguards because the barrel just looks TOO LONG. Throw a longer rail system into the mix, however, and that overly long profile that always bugged me goes away. It’s one of the reasons that I opted for the DD 12.0 FSP on both of my kid’s guns when I built them up from the base LMT M4s that we started with.
I hate overly long barrels on carbines.
I’d post pics if both of my cameras weren’t down right now.
Not being able to change muzzle devices, and having to get one pinned/welded isn’t worth the 1.5" IMO.
I would agree that carbine length handguards don’t look right with
16" barrels. Modern trends seem to be favoring 9"-12" rail systems anyway.
I’m running a DD CHF 16" M4 profile with a carbine gas system and a DD 12" Lite rail. If I were going to do it over again, I would get a LW (standard) profile barrel with a mid-length gas system. I just don’t know if its worth $300 bucks at this point, esp considering my barrel really only has about 300 rounds on it.
Thanks for the input guys.
I’m going with a 14.5" LW middy. I’m almost 100% sure on that part. I already have plans that the next one will be a 16.
I just wasn’t sure about the DD lite rail. I believe I know what I need to do now. I’ll try to follow up after I get this thing assembled so other noob’s like myself know what’s what…
The DD Lite/RIS-II rails are amazing. Expensive, but you will see where you’re money went. Beautiful product.
The best part, well one of the best features, is that it does not use the stock barrel but. There is no indexing of the barrel nut to worry about. Just torque it in somewhere in the range given and start assembling.
I’ve removed several pin/welded flashhiders with nothing more than a dremel, a dewalt cordless drill, and a little patience. the only “damage” to the threads was the dimple to hold the pin in place. i’m assuming the ones you dealt with were silver soldered?
it’s been a while since i’ve used a DD Lite Rail, but I believe you can install the backing plate, barrel nut, and gas block, then pin the FH onto the barrel. once you get the barrel back, you can install it like normal. The rail will slide over everything and attach with the 6 hex head screws.
I’ve never attempted to remove one, but I’ve had a couple brought to me to see if I could resurrect them. From the look of them, the bulk of the weld was removed, but whatever flash or other foriegn material that was still in place marred all of the threads when the FH was removed. In fact, they were marred / flattened to the point where a simple chase with a 1/2x28 tap would never fix them.
As to the method used to remove it, I have no idea. The deed was done when I got the end result, but it was enough to make me reconsider attempting it on anything other than a trash barrel. I’m not doubting that it CAN be done, only the value in risking an expensive learning curve for only 1.5" and a little less velocity.
My plan at this point is to purchase the Build-your-own DD setup from Smartgunner. Wanting the DD lite rail and 14.5" LW mid barrel, I’m not seeing any better way to purchase those components (price and value-wise). I’ll have DD assemble the components relying on they will just thread on the A2 device (or leave it loose preferably).
Once it’s home, remove the barrel from the DD upper and ship the Troy device with it to Adco. Or drive it there being less than an hour away, I’m kinda curious what that place looks like. Maybe make an appointment to have it done while I wait???
Update:
I left the DD upper attached. Pinned and welded the Claymore myself. Plans change…oh well. Never did bother finding out what the barrel nut dimensions were, but it is a moot point. The barrel nut, bolt up plate, gas tube, and gas block all need to be on the barrel before pinning the claymore.
Off topic, but did you ever get your DD upper form the smart gunner deal? I still haven’t gotten mine and it is a pretty simple request: 14.5" LW middy, FSP, no pinned flash hider.
