Updated S&B 1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE *Added Review*

Tactical Gear Optics & Mounts
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I got an email reply from Mark at S&B today. I had been asking about the 1-8x and the rumor that the Zenith SD LE could be had with a P3 reticle.

As it turns out, there have been some changes made to the Zenith SD LE. It appears to have been shortened, and the turrent box is just about halfway forward from the occular end.

Now you can get it with the FD2, FD7 and P3 mil-dot reticle. The P3 addresses the one want/need I had, some type of drop/ranging stadia.

Also only the elevation and illumination turrets are locking. I can’t see dialing wind with a 4x scope, so this works out.

Of course, the new(er) Zenith SD LE is not in stock, and 12-14 weeks out.

I was wondering if anyone had the updated version, if there was any insight you can offer. It looks like this is going to be my next scope.

Mark attatched the letter they received from Germany regarding the 1-8s. Bascially, its at the upper end of workable technology, and they aren’t satisfied with it. The factory hasn’t commited to a time frame, October was just another rumor. So the 1-8x may be quite a way away.

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Thanks for the update!

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Nice to see at least one outfit not willing to blow their reputation to push a product out the door.

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I was bummed about it, but good for them.

Cough Leupold Mark 8 Cough

But, I’m really excited about the changes to the Zenith SD LE. For what I want to do, I was going to by the 1-8x for its other features, the extra magnification was just icing. But, before I had heard about the changes, the exit pupil of the 1-8x had me thinking.

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Exactly how are you shooting, then?

When I still owned a Short-Dot the windage got used just as much as the elevation.

Also what are the clicks calculated in? One my complaints with the PM Short-Dot is MOA based turrets. Any new scope I buy will have the turrets matching the reticle. No sense in MOA turrets with a mil reticle.

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The spec sheet says the clicks are 1/2 MOA. The 1-8x’s are using 1/2 MOA clicks as well.

While this would be something I would like to see, mil reticle & mil clicks, this was minor to me compared with the other features.

How are you shooting? Do you dial wind every time with a 4x scope? Are you counting clicks or using the cam/distance subtentions on the elevation knob? Or are you just adjusting your zero that much?

I came across a rather lengthy article about dialing elevation and holding wind. This was based around a standard mil-dot reticle. If I can find it again I’ll link it. But, I’m not making 1000 yard shots either. YMMV.

I would imagine the 75gr TAP cam should get me pretty close with 77gr SMKs, if not then the 75gr Hornady ASYM loads. IIRC, the older Zenith SD LE didn’t have the 75gr cam as an option.

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I won’t buy one til I can get one in mil to match every other scope myself and my shooting partners use.

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I also added this information to the Short Dot sticky thread.

Just received my Schmidt & Bender today. I purchased the 1.1-4x24 Short Dot LE with a P3 (mil-dot) reticle.

At some point S&B revised the design of the Short Dot LE. The newest versions are shorter, about 10" overall. This makes the form factor just like the Short Dot Gen II. The new data sheet I got from S&B says the FD2, FD7 and P3 reticles can be had. They are all installed in the second focal plane.

The reticle doesn’t change size as magnification changes. This gives you an approx 5.5 MOA dot on 1x, about 1.5 MOA on 4x. Of course, the tradeoff is the mil-dots aren’t accurate for ranging on any other magnification other than 4x. With how fine the CQB reticle is on the regular Short Dot on 1x, I don’t think this is an issue. Its hard to range on 4x, next to impossible on 1x. For any shooting you would be doing past 200-300 yards where drop needs to be factored, you would more than likely be on 4x anyway. If not, you can dial the elevation into the turret or approximate a holdover with the dot/reticle as you would with an Aimpoint.

The S&B german site lists the current specs, but says the only reticle is the CQB. The P3’s bold lines are very easy to pick up. From the center, you have four dots spaced in the typical fashion then the lines go bold.

The flashdot is typical of S&B. Daylight bright on the high end, night vision compatible on the low.

Before anyone asks, there is NO blue tint to the glass.

Reticle pics will follow when I get to the range…

Pictures were taken with an iPhone 4. All of my money was spent on this thing, nothing left over for a fancy digital camera. So forgive me if they are slightly off.

Unboxing.

Yeah. A riflescope which retails for $2,699.00, and who’s pricing is agressivley controlled by S&B, is shipped in cardboard. I will say the packaging of the Trijicon TR24 blows this away. Just a note, not a gripe. :wink:

What you get…a manual and a warranty card, product survey form, and bikini scope covers.

Notice the posistion of the erector assembly relative to the length of the tube forward of it. About an inch and a half shorter than the previous version.

When you remove the windage cap, this is what you get. A compartment for a spare battery, and a view of the Posicon turret. The Posicon shows a representation of where the reticle is within its adjustment range. So this means if you want to dial wind, you have to take the windage cap off and try not to loose it. Of course, with a mil-dot reticle, you can just hold for wind and dial elevation.

View under the battery on the brightness adjustment knob. No rubber washers added. :wink: Yes that was a shot at SWFA.

This is what the elevation turret looks like disassembled. Mine was ordered with the 75gr Hornady cam. What is odd is that the manual doesn’t state at what range the optics needs to be zeroed at for the range marks to be accurate. Of course the clicks are 1/2 MOA. I would have rathered .1 MIL, but not a deal breaker.

The cap has a nice slot for a coin to unscrew it. Now wanting to mar it up to all hell, which is what will happen if you use a nickel, I’ve found the rim of a dummy round works great.

Here you can see the turret markings with the referenced ammunition. I had just received a case of TAP T2 last week. Perfect timing. On a side note, the TAP T2 is amazing stuff. Surprisingly uniform.

Without the optic mounted, my rifle weighs 8lbs on the money. Not a lightweight build, but it was never intended to be. Stripped of the Scout light, Larue FUG and rail covers, the rifle is 7.2lbs.

With the S&B mounted in a Larue SPR, its rocking at 9.6lbs. The Short Dot LE is a damn tank. If you want light, get a T-1.

With the bi-pod, its at 10.4lbs.

Should be out to the range tomorrow, more pics will follow…

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I have been using the Short Dot 1.1-4x LE for a few years now, both at work testing suppressors and in competition use.

It is actually probably one of the first scopes out, as it is marked Zenith but has the SD BDC turret, with the original longer body.

The scope has the FD 7 reticle and a .308 BDC ( works fine with .223 just need to know your adjustments, ie. my .233 cal 300 m zero is 250 m for the .308 )

It has been great overall. The dot being in the second plane can be used out to longer distances and overall it is an excellent scope for varying distances.

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Did yours come with 3 ballistic turrets? I thought that was how they shipped them, but I only got the 75gr cam.

I have two minor gripes. I wish the 6 setting on the dot brightness was brighter. 5 and 6 look just about the same, and there is a huge jump to 7. The 7 setting is suppose to be the first daylight setting. For night use I always kept my RDS bright enough so when I activated a white light, the dot didn’t wash out. The 7 setting setting seems perfect for this. But I find myself wanting the dot brightness a bit brighter on the 6 setting.

S&B went through the trouble of beautifully laser etching all of the turret markings and lettering on the scope. Except for the circle dot logo on the windage cap. Its just silk screened/painted on.

Not deal breakers, but at this price point, i’ll nit pick.

I actually moved it back a little bit in the mount from where it was when that picture was taken, just to sharpen up the edges of the image when standing.

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Our scope came/was ordered with only one BDC cam.

I think you´ll be fine if those are the biggest gripes :slight_smile:

The above scope has been banged up and its nicks, but the dot logo is still there…

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I’m brand new to the variable optics game and I’m considering this optic in addition to the S&B 1-8 when available. With this 1-4 optic what would be the limits for precision fire? I would be shooting 75gr out of a 16in barrel if that helps.

Ideally I would like to get out to 6-700m but I’m thinking this will not be enough magnification.

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Higher magnification optics make trade offs for that magnification. Size, weight, smaller exit pupil/eye box etc. Higher magnification optics don’t help you shoot better, they help you see better.

You have to balance what you will realistically use the rifle for.

I think for 6-700m you’d be better off with a .308. What kind of minimum distances are you looking at? Are you going to want to take any classes with the rifle? Most of those operate within 50 yards.

I have to drive a long way to find a range past 100 yards.

All that being said, for that kind of distance and if you were married to the .223 platform, take a look at the Nightforce 2.5-10x. You can run an offset RDS for up close.

The S&B 1-8x looks like its going to be a nice product if/when it is released.

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My intent is for this rifle to be a general purpose go anywhere do anything type. With a variable 1-4 or 1-8 I could get out to 6-700 or dial it back to 1 and do close in work. Daylight illum on the red dot is a must.

I know that this will never beat a rifle that has a more dedicated setup like an SPR with a 2.5-10 or a 10.5in rifle with a T-1. But this is the trade off I’m willing to make.

When I get back to the states I was planning to do a couple of rifle courses. One would be a traditional carbine course probably going no more than 200m out. The second would be the SPR course by Central Cascade Precision/Magpul Dynamics. The course req. as stated by the instructor are 16in rifle shooting a 68-77gr projectile and a minimum 4x fixed or a 1-5x. Engagement ranges would be 1-600 m. But looking at reviews of the course they shot a little over 7. Locally on my own I could get to 300 or a little more.

In talking with the instructor by email he recommended the Leopold 1-8. This is way beyond what I would pay for an optic though. The S&B 1-4 or 1-8 at the current price point is as high as I’m willing to go.

This would be my first formal training and shooting with variable power optics so I’m very new to this.

I think what I’m trying to understand is if 4x would be enough to accurately PID, range with mils and then engage a man size target at those ranges. :confused:

Thanks BP

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I think it would be pretty hard to range on 4x at 600m. Can it be done? Sure, provided the user is skilled at doing so.

If you are active duty mil/LE, go to www.promotive.com and register for an account and join the mil/LE group. If you use your official mil/le email address I suspect the process is quicker. This will get you the proffessional discount on Leupold scopes. MUCH cheaper than the $4k retail.

If and when the S&B 1-8x is released it should have a very good price point, if that doesn’t change.

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I too noticed the dot brightness between 6 and 7 is a big jump. I guess 7 will be the standard setting unless shooting in very low light conditions. I threw a “Cat Tail” speed adjustment lever on mine and mounted it in a LaRue SPR-E mount. If I had to do it over I’d probably buy 2 Nightforce 1-4X scopes instead, but I really do like this optic. I just wish it wasn’t so damn expensive.

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I was always taught when using a RDS at night to have the brightness set so when you activated a white light, you can still see the dot. Such a setting is typically brighter than one would normally select for night use. To that end, the 7 setting works out good with my Surefire Scout.

I actually found a problem with my Short Dot LE. I had since contacted S&B, and sent the scope into them. I found what looks like five little defects in the coating of the lens just forward of the occular lens. They look like dirt/dust trapped under the lens coating. I took a picture of it, I’ll post it later.

For the money paid, it’s entirely unacceptable. So now the scope is on the way back, and we’ll see what happens. To say I’m a little disappointed is an understatement.

There is a sliding scale as to value with these things. As you go up in price the gains in features get smaller and smaller. I think one of the things that keep S&B’s prices high is a limited production capacity. It’s not like they are using some space age materials. Less the lens coating problem, it’s easily the highest quality scope I’ve ever used. I’m sure even Ferrari has production issues from time to time, but we’ll see how S&B handles this.

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Please keep us posted.

I would like to know how they handle your issue as well.

After reading about all of the scopes suitable for an AR/ M4 type rifle, I have decided to go with the Short-Dot.

I was initially considering the NightForce 1-4 NXS but after using one and looking at a few other samples I believe that the S&B Short-Dot 1-4 would be the best choice for a general purpose optic on a 16" Match barreled AR. My set-up is almost identical to yours.

Any advice regarding the selection of the specific model? I have read several reviews as well as the stickied 1-4 thread here.

I am considering the latest model like yours, but with the FD-7 reticle.

SnakeDoc, if you care to share any thoughts that would be great. Purchasing this scope will be a major expense for me as well. But, I have grown tired of waiting for what may be coming-out to the market soon or next year.:secret:

Thanks in advance
SkiDevil

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If you want one of the newer versions of the 1.1-4x24 Short Dots, be prepared to wait. I ordered it in June and got it in November. The older ones have a slightly longer tube forward of the turrets and are marked 1.1-4x24 Zenith, and come with the FD7 or FD2 reticles. The new(er) generation are marked 1.4-4x24 Short Dot LE, and can be had with the P3.

I like 2nd focal optics in this low of a power. For something like a 2.5-10x, if S&B made one, would be great in 1st focal with a flashdot.

I like the P3 over the FD7 as they have, an albeit limited, ability to range and holdover/off etc. The mil part of the reticle is pretty fine at 4x, which is good for precision shooting. The bold parts of the reticle give you a nice bracket to place a target in should the dot be off and you’re up close.

I’ll see what S&B does. I’ve heard of them sending you a scope to use while yours is being serviced, but we shall see…

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The Short-Dot has been out for years, and is still easily one of the best low power variables on the market for this kind of use.

Sorry to hear you had an issue. Ive owned 3 SB’s and they were all perfect right out of the box. I have no doubt SB USA will take care of you. When I was buying my second Short-Dot the CEO of SB USA personally took care of my order.

As to their production numbers check out the factory on google maps. Its tiny, and they have a huge demand. Many European military and police units use them, USMC, civilian shooters, ect. They are also one of the few optiks manufacturers who grind their own glass in house.