**Update-DBT Low Vis Rig Reviewed** Featuring PMAG goodness and Pics!

Tactical Gear Tactical Gear
1

First off, I’ve toyed around with my CTD chest rig a good bit, and I’ve found out what I like and what I don’t.

If you don’t want to read what amounts to a review, you can skip to the bottom to see what I’m looking for in a rig

For those of you who need to know what rig I’m talking about here it is:http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MOLLE136-44932-1572.html

First off, my biggest complaint has got to be the shoulders on it. I appreciate the padding, but when I go to shoulder my carbine, I have to be careful to place it directly on the padding and keep it there, lest it slip off. Also, if I’m unlucky, I’ll miss the padding and it will be outside of my shoulder, almost on my arm, and I ain’t happy with that.

Second, I have no need for a two piece front system, I’ve had it tied up with shoestrings since about week 1 of having it. It is too big of a hassle IMHO.

Third, this is somewhat minor, but I dislike the giant plastic buckles placed right behind a left and right mag pouch. It makes access a tad harder, nothing big, but prevalent enough that I’m looking for a rig without it or located somewhere else (possibly on the back altogether rather than the front).

There are some things I do like though

First, I love the mag pouches. I used ALICE prior to this and this is a great improvement over the three-mag pouches with “silent” pinch tabs. I love the elastic, as well as the fact that it is integrated into the chest rig itself. I love having 6 basic pouches already integrated into the rig. They are too shallow though, and I’ve been using an insert to keep my mags easy to reach. Also, the drain hole is slowly tearing out of the nylon.

Second, I like the bib. It is kind of nice to have another pocket at chest level, and also with more molle webbing as well. I didn’t like the button method of attachment, though, and the bib hung a bit, catching the bottom of my M4 stock at one point while going prone. I’d call it an isolated occurance though. I think it is a nice feature, but It wouldn’t break my heart to go without one on my next rig.

Third, I like having the hydration pack in the back. I haven’t even gotten a camelback yet, but I’m quite certain this is a good feature to keep when I go for another rig.

Thats it about the CTD chest rig, here’s what I’m looking for in a new set-up.

  1. 6 integrated mag pouches- I love having them in the chest rig, it works great. I’m not going below six. I want to force a 210 rnd minimum load out.
  2. elastic mag retention- bungee loops are excellent for me, I despise any kind of flap system now
  3. thin shoulder supports- I don’t want padded shoulder support so that my rifle can slip off of it when I go to shoulder it. Something thin, but also somewhat wide across would do great
  4. No buckle immediately behind any mag pouches- I’ve never used the CTD buckles and it just got in the way, if only slightly, during reloads
  5. Hydration support I’d love if I could find such a rig with camelback support in the back, with molle webbing on that to boot.

I’ve looked at some rigs, and so far, none can meet all my criteria.
This is the rig I am eyeing up though: http://www.diamondbacktactical.com/BattleLab-Low-Vis-Rack-with-MOLLE-LV3-P801C90.aspx

My only issues with it is a lack of a camelback carrier. I was wondering if there is a way to attach one, without introducing padded shoulder supports?

Also there is the Esstac bush boar, but it not only doesn’t have a hydration carrier, it has the same buckle issue as the CTD rig from the pictures I’ve seen.

If you are looking for the DBT review, it is at the bottom of this page.

Range Report is on page two.
Pmag update and pics are on page three.

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How about the ESSTAC Boar (8mag) or Bush Boar (6mag)…

Damn just read that doesn’t meet your needs.

I’ve also used the HSGI Warlord, but don’t think you’d like the shoulder straps…

3

My biggest concern is whether the battlelabs rig will hold up to some real use. I’m kinda leary about buying a $65 piece of kit if its just gonna be like the CTD rig and end up not being a real solution, but just another stepping stone to what I really want.

To be fair, the Bush Boars buckles look like they use a different system of adjustment, however. The CTD buckles had the excess nylon rolled up right behind the buckle, kind of pushing it out, obstructing the mag pouch. The BB seems to let the excess out at a point on the back. This may keep the buckle “flatter” to the chest, keeping the mag pouch less obstructed. If anyone has experience, that would be great.

4

I think this is what you’re looking for: TAG Gladiator Rig

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DBT stuff is as good as anything ese on the market, and in some cases better. The DBT rig will not fall apart.

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First off, it does fix the two piece issue, and it still has the hydration pack, which is good. Problem is that it still has the two large buckles in front, and it uses very large buckles on the side (I don’t imagine I’d like the buckles that big on the side) and it still has shoulder padding.

Since the battlelabs rig looks about as close as I’ll get, is there a way to attach a bladder to the back, or will it be thin enough at the shoulder to put on another pack with a bladder, and not have a solid inch of webbing on my shoulders?

My goal is to have my mags and stuff in front with easy access, bladder in the rear, and keep my shoulder supports thin enough to shoulder and fire my carbine naturally.

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It wouldn’t be hard to modify one of the to take a bladder on the back. Any decent sew shop with industrial machines should handle it.

8

Diamondback Tactical’s Battlelab stuff is well built and head-and-shoulder above that rig you had.

Or you can try the SOTech Falcon Mk1. 6 internal mag pockets, plenty of PALS webbing and a 1 piece design.

In fact, that POS Cheaper than Dirt rig you had is a knock-off of it.

Since I am not an advertiser here, I can’t list anything, but the Falcon Mk1 rigs are out there.

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you can also try putting the buttstock inboard of the shoulder pad - closer to your centerline, so the shoulder pad actually prevents the butt from slipping outwards.

10

IIRC, that cheek weld is designed to be used with plate carriers, specifically when presenting the broad front to the target and thus the plate surface, as well as keeping the vulnerable under arms concealed from the target. (Thats my understanding of it, I could be wrong, I’m no gear expert, I’m just trying to get something that fits me. Besides that’s a whole topic in itself for another thread, and it wouldn’t make much sense to hi-jack my own thread.:wink: ) That doesn’t suit me too well, although I do find myself with that cheekweld quite often when using the CTD rig, like I said it slips one way or the other, either towards my arm or into the chest/collarbone area. Personally I like my good ol fashioned shoulder contact, and I don’t see a reason to learn the other way, as I’m nowhere near the funds for a plate carrier.:slight_smile:

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there are other advantages to a more squared-off upper body than the plate thing - depending on what kind of shooting you do. lack of a plate carrier isn’t the reason why you shouldn’t consider learning both techniques, unless you plan on sticking to static, slow fire target practice.

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Can you IM me some resources on this? I’ve been using the whole lean in when firing for some time, but the squaring away my torso element just doesn’t feel right.:confused: I’m interested but I don’t wanna clog the main thread. (Never hurts to learn more:cool: )

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Putting the buttstock more towards your centerline can do wonders for your recoil control and follow up shots. It’s kind of funky at first until you get it down, but some people do very well, especially smaller statured shooters.

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Right now holding my rifle here is my stance: torso is facing about 30 degrees to the right of the target, both feet are nearly perpendicular to the target, my left foot is more forward than the right foot, my legs are almost into a slight kneel towards the target, and my rifle is straight ahead, the stock is inwards to the point it is just beyond the ball of my shoulder, no chicken wing, elbows in, and my left arm is the same, with elbows tucked in, leaning forward with my upper body. I hope you guys can imagine this. :confused:

BTW, I’m right handed.

This is how I’ve been shooting for some time, lets see if I’ve been doing it right.:smiley:

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If you put the buttstock more towards your centerline like folks are suggesting, remember to bring your stock in. I don’t know how you shoot, but I see a lot of folks running their telestocks all the way out. To get nose to charging handle head position, they end up in a bladed stance (instead of squared in relation to the target).

I’m 6’2" and run the stock on the second click out from all the way in. That position works for 99% of the shooting I do (prone, kneeling, sitting, standing).

16

I go for third click from fully collapsed most of the time.

ETA: I just placed an order for the battlelabs rig, hopefully it turns out great.:smiley:

Here is a hydration carrier that I hop might work. http://optactical.com/spbrhuhyutmu.html

17

Ok, I got the rig today. (Took 12 days, from order confirmation to doorstep, if you are concerned with that.)

First impression:

MY GOD! CAN THEY MAKE MAG POUCHES ANY TIGHTER! The bungee was incredibly tight, and even after loosening each tab to the limit, it is still much tighter than anything I would imagine to be practical. The mag pouches themselves are ungodly hard to get mags into. They are just too tight. I don’t know if this is wrong, I wouldn’t expect it to be, but darn it, I can’t emphasize how tight these pouches are! Is there a “right” way to use the bungee tab, and maybe I’m doing it wrong?

Everything else is good, buckles are good quality, material is good as well. The bungee tabs have a grippy material sewn onto them, which is good in my book. The shoulder supports are thin, exactly as I wanted them. In addition, they cross over in the back, keeping them pretty close to the collar, so my shoulders are unhampered by anything, even the thin straps.

Overall, I’d say its pretty good, I’d be in heaven right now if those darn pouches weren’t so tight!!!:mad:

Anyone got any tips that might help me out?

18

I briefly owned that very same DBT rig. It was comfortable and well-made, but I didn’t like the super-tight pouches either. The bungees were so tight they were nearly impossible to get over the mags, and then equally difficult to pull off. I had to force the mags down into the pouches and then it was an ordeal to yank them out. I took the bungees off completely and relied just on the grippy stuff (what does DBT call it?) lining the pouches for retention. That worked okay, but I just wasn’t crazy about the whole set-up.

I’m sure they loosen up a bit with use and then work well, but I sold mine and moved on. I was looking for a fairly simple “low-speed” rig to use for some training classes but that certainly wasn’t the one for me. I’m sure some of the more experienced members here can help with your problem, and hopefully you can get it to work for you.

Derek

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I took your advice adn removed the bungees. They are a lot easier to pull out now. Thankfully, they don’t seem to want to come out on their own, either. I’ll use it this way for a while, but I may add the bungees again sometime, if they get too loose and start falling out. (Doubtful:p )

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Derek,
Are you saying the mags are in too tight for classes/matches or real life stuff?
I’m interested in the DBT one also…eventually all nylon will loosen up(even the bungies wear out).
Personally, I prefer tighter pouches- but if it is as tight as you say cutting off the bungies and adding ranger plates may help. Do the bungies move out of the way enough to not have to cut them?
Thanks,
Dave