Gentlemen,
I have a quick question for all our Competition Shooters / Active Combat Shooters. Do you truly believe all the bugs have been worked out of the New,Gen 4, Glock, Model 17’s? Let me know what your current (November 2010) experience is? I’m about to purchase 2 of them. Thanks for your input.
Stay Safe
Jimmy
…
:big_boss:
Friend of mine got one 2 days ago. The test fire date was October. He had multiple feeding failures in the first 30 rounds with FMJ practice ammo.
I would wait a little longer.
I had two FTEs in the first 460 rounds. Changed to an 02 spring and they went away.
No issues in mine, 02 spring in two, 01 in the other.
Are the premature wear issues fixed?
I bought mine in August (02 spring) and have put approx 1100 rounds of various cheap range ammo through it. Myself, my wife, and 3 different friends have all fired it. Zero issues.
The “bug” is that the heavier redesigned spring assembly was designed to shoot hotter loads (i.e. defensive rounds) in a more controllable manner. The Gen4s shoot these hotter rounds softer than any other polymer pistol I’ve ever shot. The trade off is their unreliability with softer loads due to them not having enough power to get the slide to go all the way back. I have heard some anecdotal stories from a very small number of people mentioning issues with the new extractor, but these would not cause the FTFs that I have experienced as well as the details and photos of others and their FTF issues, as the round doesn’t even come into contact with the extractor in these cases.
To answer YOUR question, if I were a competition shooter looking for lower PF rounds, I would NOT get the Gen4 guns. But, if you are looking to get these guns to shoot higher PF rounds, knowing they will still have the same benefits you see when shooting lower PF rounds in a gen3 gun, then have at it.
I own a Gen4 G19 and carry it on duty. I accepted the fact that I needed to shoot hotter rounds out of it, and as a reloader it didn’t bother me a bit. My gun has been 100% with +P rounds as well as my current load (4.7gr titegroup, 115gr FMJ). I love my Gen4.
You’re giving Glock far too much credit.
They designed the 4th Gen as a fix to all of their .40S&W problems, then they dropped the 9mm’s into it…and this is what you get. The exact opposite of the 2nd/3rd gen.
They released the slides initially with no recess for the spring assembly, then started doing it after their guns locked up like vaults on the line for numerous LE depts…oops.
They used the 3rd Gen spring for the takedown lever, despite the dustcover changing dimensions pretty noticably, then had to invent a new part after they were released…oops.
They released their 9mm’s with the exact same springs as the .40S&W’s, with evidently ZERO large scale testing with factory training ammo (budget FMJ), then had to create new springs to address these failures…oops.
C’mon, the only reason they shoot hotter loads better is because they designed the gun to shoot .40S&W, and took a lot of shortcuts converting it into a 9mm.
No.
And I say that as a true Glock fanatic. There are far too many reports of these things choking than we say with Gen2 & Gen3 models for me to believe that they are good to go.
That’s not to say you can’t walk into the gun store, buy one and have 100% reliability though. I just think your chances of having one run on standard 115gr ammo are less than you would with a 3rd generation G17.
It’s the reason I haven’t added a Gen4 G17 (or G19) to my collection yet. I know the Glocks I own are good to go but I’m not so sure about the new ones. I’ll buy one eventually, just not now.
I will certainly concede that it may not have been their original intention, but I know I’m not the only one who’s noticed how soft it is while shooting high power ammo. I find this to be a desirable feature, as I find it to give me a slight advantage should I ever have to fire my weapon against someone.
I noticed that too, when I shot a 17 with plain ball. I was impressed how soft it shot.
I have an early G4, and it has the orginal recoil spring. Mine has been flawless from the beginning. It has not had any problems of any kind. I dont really know how or why some people have issues with them and others dont. I would have to guess shooting styles may have some part in it. I have not met anyone that has personally had problems with theirs. I would really like to get my hands on one that is having problems to do some experimenting. I am not suggesting that it is simply a limp wristing issue, but I would like to rule it out.
Matt
Seen this on GT forum this afternoon, Glock is sending one out to me today.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16341928&posted=1#post16341928
This past weekend I took Intensive Handgun Skills with John Holschen
(http://www.insightstraining.com/view_course.asp?courseID=12). I started with my HK45 (and had 2000 rounds of 45 ACP in tow), but somehow managed to change my grip such that I was constantly activating the magazine release while shooting. Needless to say, this messed with my mind a bit and I found myself focusing more on not dropping my mags than improving other aspects of my shooting. I still learned a lot the first day, but my shooting was just atrocious due to being psyched out and being down on myself.
So, I made the decision that night to pony up the cash, buy a G19 (had already been contemplating it), and ammo to ensure I got my money’s worth of the remaining two days (Side note, I still prefer the HK, but decided to figure out what I’d changed in my grip to cause the mag drops outside of class rather than letting it distract me).
Anyway, West Coast Armory, where the class was occurring, had both Gen3 and Gen4 G19s available. I remembered vaguely reading about folks having issues with the G19 and I heard the voice of another Insights instructor, Mike Shertz, ringing in my ears as he said “Proven mediocre technology over the promise of something better”. I ignored that voice and went with the Gen4. It was more ergonomic and it was “new”. Plus the sales guy said he hadn’t heard of any issues. I figured, it’s a Glock. I’m sure it’s fine.
So, day two, I’m excited to really get down to business. First drill of the day. Bang, FTE, Tap-rack-bang, FTE, Tap-rack-bang, FTE, Tap-rack-bang, FTE. This went on for a few magazines, before I borrowed a Gen2 G19 from another student. At lunch, I took the gun back to the counter and said it was just not acceptable. I’d just paid nearly a grand for ammo and a new gun so I could enjoy my class, only to have it shit on me. West Coast Armory handled this very professionally and made me a nearly even trade for a new Gen3. They took good care of me, when I know some other stores I’ve shopped at would have said I was shit out of luck and I needed to contact Glock.
Anyway, the Gen3 functioned pretty much flawlessly with the same ammo and magazines. In fairness, I started having an few FTE towards the end of day 3, but I think this was due to some combination of not having cleaned the gun, 1100 rounds through the thing, and the fact I started wearing tactical gloves.
In fairness, it was crappy PMC Bronze ammo, so maybe I wouldn’t have had issues with NATO pressure ammo. To me, that’s still unacceptable, since I shoot a fair bit and most of the ammo I use is probably considered “weak”. Needless to say, I won’t even consider another Gen4 Glock until I know the issues are ironed out. Of course this is all N=1, so I make no claim it’s statistically significant, only my experience.
Side note: I highly recommend the course to anyone in the Washington area. Both my speed and accuracy improved dramatically. I was making shots towards the end, I never thought I’d be capable of.
Get a Gen3 and remove all doubt.
The frequency of issues being reported by individual owners of both Gen4 G17’s and G19’s and the fact Glock releases 2 different spring weights for owners to play around with gives me pause. Not acceptable for any service pistol and the fact Glock did this to their most reliable pistol lineup really is unfortunate.
This past spring and summer a couple of large west coast LE agencies had SIGNIFICANT, SEVERE malfunctions and parts breakages that rendered early 4th Gen Glocks completely inoperable until armorer intervention. These pistols were utterly unworthy of duty use. While Glock initially prevaricated and threatened, a Glock engineer essentially admitted the early 4th gen Glocks were not ready for prime time, but that numerous improvements had been introduced to try and fix things. Several weeks ago, a new batch of 4th gen Glocks arrived that do indeed seem to be working well. Unfortunately, Glock may have burned some bridges with their behavior this year… I am still running my 3rd gen 9 mm’s and have had no problems over many thousands of rounds.
To the OP, I’d have to say it’s a gamble. The two guns you are about to purchase, how new are they (when where they manufactured)?
Personally, I am staying with my Gen3 Glock 9mm’s as I don’t have the funds to spend on a gamble. My Gen3 9mm’s work for me.
The various confirmed reports of the negative manner in which Glock has responded to LE agencies who honestly reported issues they’ve had with T&E Gen4 guns has turned me off of Glock.
I will be keeping the Gen 3 guns I currently own, but my future business will be going elsewhere.
It’s good to hear those issues were resolved. Perhaps now a more formal report of the BS that went down can be made?
I’m well aware of the LE problems and Glock’s response to the situation. By the time I found out about it, I was already an owner of a Gen4 G19 and decided to stick it out.
For me it’s been fine. I’m able to work up my own load for it that functions it 100% and I’m glad I didn’t hurry and get rid of it for a Gen3. Funds permitting, I will be buying a Gen3 sometime in the future as a backup.
I have heard there is an 04 spring out now (012/021 for the G17) which is lighter and allows for weaker loads to cycle properly. I’ve heard positive reports about its effect on cycling, but I’ve also heard reports saying the recoil impulse is noticeably increased.
Glock never has recalls…only “improvements”…
Although how you improve perfection is beyond me.
Just bought two more 3rd gen 19’s.