Unexpected Lessons

Training Training and Tactics
1

Since the other thread got hijacked, how about a thread where we post useful “Unexpected Lessons”, learned through training, real life whatever.

A good example is USMC03’s story about the gum wrapper in the AR magazine.

Here’s a story from me to start it off–

A few years ago, I took my first tactical pistol training class, and I planned to shoot my 5" 1911, which I had been shooting in IPSC for about a year. I had a couple ammo cans of .45 reloads (mine), and I had been shooting that same recipe for about a year. What I didn’t realize is that the OAL of the rounds was “just” long enough that as many as 50% of them could get jammed when racking out live rounds-- something I never did in practice, and almost never did in IPSC (end of stage excepted). I realize this problem before the class, and reverted to my backup gun and back-up ammo (which happened to be my .40 Limited gun).

The lesson I learned is that something that has been “working forever” can still have problems when behavior and training changes-- equipment must be re-validated when training changes to check for unexpected effects.

2

When I was living in WI last year, I had a good range to shoot monthly USPSA matches at. I had just gotten my Glock and did not have time to get a good quality open top mag pouch before the next match, so I used a older velco flapped pouch (no kydex) and tucked the flaps to hold the mags tight (you probably see where this is going). Well, halfway through the first stage, I reach for a mag and come up with a handful of air. Crap. At this point I’ve got a gun a slidelock, old mag is gone, no mags on belt, and I look back to see that Hansel and Gretl have left me a trail of fully loaded G21 mags to help me find my way back to the start box. I’d bounced them all out. My first instinct was to run back and grab one, but I froze cause I was about to break the 180 rule and I didn’t want to get DQ’d. I’m still kicking myself over it – not so much losing the mags, but not following through to remedy the problem, because if those cardboard guys had been shooting back I wouldn’t have had time to wonder if it was okay to run back for my mags.

But, some good lessons got burned in (nothing reinforces “right” quite like “wrong”):
Secure your mags! Slidelock is a bad time to realize they’re missing.
Get physical in your gear before you trust it: I bounced around without losing them but once I ran they were gone.
Don’t give up…do whatever it takes to keep in the fight. Even if you’re just pretending to fight.

3

Story 1:

Day 2 of my first training course at Blackwater. We had switched to carbines and were getting/confirming our zero. My carbine was already zeroed previously but wasn’t hitting anything on this day. As I went through what could be going wrong (“Did I zero this Aimpoint on another gun?” “Did I switch bolts or something?” “Am I using different ammo?”) someone asked if I had applied Loctite to the threads of the Larue mount. I replied no, and proceeded to spend the lunch period degreasing, Loctiting and torquing the screws. After lunch, good as gold.

Lesson learned: Loctite anything that you can. Witness marks are good too. And just because it worked yesterday doesn’t mean it will work today.

Story 2:

Doing a drill at a class involved running out, putting rounds on a target and running back in a competitive relay. My rig was initially set up for good retention, but over the course of the morning I had tucked varous flaps and lids out of the way to be able to get at magazines faster. Imagine my surprise to find many of my mags had fallen out as my fat ass weeble-wobbled down and back.

Lesson learned: Speed is good, but retention is better. I modified my rig to provide a secure “oh shit” reload, while keeping retention on the rest of my stuff. It’s a continuously changing evolution though, finding the right balance between the two.

Story 3:

I’ve noticed a few stories about being “switched on” when it’s time to start doing stuff with anecdotes about unloaded pistols in holsters, Aimpoints switched off and so forth being evidence of fellows who weren’t completely turned on at go time. Well, there’s one other thing you don’t want to forget about: hearing protection. It was hot, I turned’em up so I could hear better during the instruction, and when the draw command was given, they were still sitting on my temples instead of on my ears.

Lesson learned: There’s more to being switched on than having a loaded gun. And permanent hearing damage can be applied instantaneously.

4

Most of the lessons I learn is from me screwing things up somehow, so don’t be suprised that I sound like I’m an idiot. I may be, but at least I learn from it.

LONG ago I was at Ft Ord, on an FTX and we were doing a patrol. I had about 6 mos TIS. As we walked down a path, I had my trigger finger running along side of my XM16E1 (hey, I said LONG ago). One of the evaluators threw an arty simulator, and we did the usual thing for that back then (call out direction and distance to run), and when I arrived I noticed my mag was no longer in the rifle. OK, when the BOOM when off and I started hauling ass, I inadvertently pushed the mag release and dropped the mag in the bush. Well, I figured out why the later A1’s had the fence, and I learned NOT to rest my finger on the mag release button.

As for gear failures, I found the grenade pouches to be worthless on the ALICE ammo pouch. On a grenade qual course, I was doing the crawl under the wire bit and had the grenades in little pockets with the snaps on the sides of the ammo pouches. After getting up, I noticed half (2 of 4) of my genades no longer there. You crawl around on those things and the snaps pop off, and the grenade rolls out. After that, they went IN an ammo pouch. Later when the SAW came out with it’s nifty ammo pouch, I put one of those on my LCE for grenades and other pyro-type stuff.

While not having anything to do with the topic really, I also learned that they were right when they said the M151 jeep will kill you if you let it. New, young driver, running around off road, and going too fast, with not enough experience. CLASSIC accident waiting to happen. If the sand was deeper, or the ground softer, instead of rocky, it would have dug in when it slid and I’d be dead right now. No if’s, and’s, or but’s. So I learned that you had to drive the jeep well, but when driven well, the widow maker was one helluva vehicle.

Much later in my Army life, when I went to flight school at Ft Rucker, the first thing my IP said when I climbed in the TH-55A was, “Always dress like you’re walking home.” It was the first thing he taught me, and it always stuck.

5

You don’t know how many times I have seen wrappers from gum, MRE Tabasco bottles, etc picked up from of the bottom of magazine pouches by the magazine feed lip and inadvertently loaded. You get some interesting jams because of foreign objects getting stuck in the chamber.

6

Pat’s AI at our class had a series of actions that he instructed us to use when you heard “load”. Eyes, ears, pistol, rifle. I committed that to memory and used it in the class and have been using it since. Just a little phrase I repeat to myself each time. Even if I already think I have on eyes and ears, I touch each just to check.

7

I imagine that you were sleeping through the lacture part where we covered “Make Ready”, and the reasons why we do it that way, and emphasize it to the nth degree??

8

Treat everything like a PI/Riggers check. Dont assume.

As well the testicles, spectacles, wallet and watch routine.

I routinely notice that after years of doing this sort of thing I’ve done a bonehead move (low GPS batteries, Peltors not hooked into the commo system etc.)

9

Biggest lesson I have learned over time… is to make sure you can “switch On” To many guys get on the line ,etc and don’t have focus… that combined with a plan (like ears,eyes,pistol,rifle) are what cause a lot of empty pistols to be drawn during a transition.

Getting your game face on can help overcome a lot of “stupid shit”…

10

Probably was too busy checking to see that my visor was on straight.:smiley:

11

Treat everything like a PI/Riggers check. Dont assume.

Kevin…PI/Riggers check… I think down in the lower 48 is JMPI-Jumpmasters Personal Inspection… right? I do a kind of “Check Equipment!” thing where I start at the top and stop, well at the testicels… checking everything in between…

Good stuff this thread…

Y-

12

No,

Rigger check is a check at certain steps in the parachute packing process in which an inspector is called to double check the rigger’s work.

A JMPI is when you get your parachute/harness checked out by a Jumpmaster, (for instance, that your legstraps wont crush your balls) before a jump.

different things bud

13

Roger that…
I’ve only been on the other end of a JMPI…

Thx…

Y-

14

I was out shooting with Luke McGillie, dropped him off at my house, took my gun and magazines off before walking into a store(due to a lack of a concealing garment) and four large inner-city residents with .45s walked in about 20 seconds behind me .

That’ll make you feel stupid.

Edit: lesson learned - Never get outta the fuckin’ boat. Er. I mean, never take off your weapon. Period.

15

I thought you still had the mags on your belt, or was it just the mag pouch?

The story is better if you had the mags, but not your pistola…

All I remember is that crazy “Death from the SCIF” shirt you had on that day

16

I’ve only got 4 US jumps –
in the CF the JM can call a Rigger during his intial inspection if he sees something amiss.

I mentioned it more of a check it twice with a great deal of attention – like you would jumping.

17

Biggest lesson I ever learned:

I bought a Mag-Cinch before I deployed to Iraq. I installed on 2 mags months before going over there. Every thing about it seemed fine and almost gave me a good feeling about having 56 rounds on my gun.

The first gun fight I was in lasted about an hour-felt like days. I had emptied my first mag in about 4 seconds(first firefight kinda tweaked). I did this “super speedy reload” with my Magcinch set up and after firing the gun 1 time, both mags feel out of the gun and hit the deck(which was the back of a Hum-V). I dropped down to get it, smashed it back in the mag well and went to work- After pulling the trigger, it fell out again. I immedeatly ditched that piece of shit for another mag and never had another problem.

After the gun fight I had a chance examine the Mag-Cinch set up.
What happened was, I thought the Mag-Cinch was cinched to the mags tight enough…it wasn’t. During the first reload my adrenaline was pumping so hard that when I slammed the mag into the well, the allignment was off and the now empty mag was hanging up on the bolt-catch and was not allowing the full mag to seat properly(lock in place).

Lessons learned:

1)The Mag-Cinch is a Piece of Shit that almost cost me my life.

2)Adrenaline can be very powerful and totally “F” up the whole “smooth is fast” thing.

  1. The mag-cinch falling out of my gun had actually SAVED MY LIFE; two sniper rounds came from behind me striking the the tow-bar (which was strapped to the Hum-V roof) 2 inches apart…Had I not been bending down picking up the Mag-Cinch off the deck, I may have been SOL.
18

We’re glad you are still with us Raining Brass…
Great learning points.

Y-

19

LOL…yeah, I was wondering what that dude was thinking when he had that .45 screwed into my kidney with that grinning skull staring back at him…:smiley:

20

I’ve done that myself.

I remember going through the shoothouse at Blackwater during one of the night exercises and after I had done my run through I remember thinking “Golly…That was louder than the day run…”

I go outside to the rest of the guys and go “Did anyone notice how loud it was in there?”

“Uh, Opie, were your muffs on your head the whole time?”

"…:confused: …:rolleyes: …:eek: …:smiley: "

I was only using a 9mm at the time so the effects weren’t too brutal.

I have also had an occasion or two where the muffs weren’t on exactly right. At my last carbine class I was proned out doing a drill beside a guy Rob and his crew nicknamed “Winchester” who had a really oddly configured SBR with some hideous brake on it. When he started shooting I found out that I hadn’t positioned my muffs exactly right.