A buddy and I have been working on a custom rifle project, (which hopefully will turn into a future thread). In looking for an optic for it, what we really wanted was something akin to the old Colt 3X scope, at least size wise. Doesn’t seem to be much in that category made. One of the makers of the Colt scope, Hakko, now Japan Optics, lists a SSZ-ATG-15416. It’s in the size and weight ballpark, (a little bigger than we hoped, but close), but it’s a 1.5-4X, which wouldn’t be our first choice, and as near as I can see, no one seems to be bringing them into the country.
Through a friend, I was able to have a conversation with a “famous maker” optics company this morning. I floated the idea of a 3 or 4 power, Colt type scope. Surprisingly, he was actually quite interested, and asked if he thought there was interest in something like that.
Is there a market for a super small, 3-4X scope, built rugged, with decent glass? Clearly, I’m not talking about a precision scope. I’m talking no frills, non illuminated, (maybe a tritium dot option?) probably no BDC. Perhaps 30MM, with a flatop attachment point for a mount on the bottom, but could be used with rings, or ring, on other types of firearms. Etched glass, with a very basic reticle, maybe a second dot/line for a 4-500 yard zero.
I realize this would be a niche item, but do you have a lightweight rifle of some sort that you’d like to have such an option for? Lever guns, etc.?
The only two domestic produced compact scopes that come to mind are the Leopuld FX 2.5 X 20mm and the Burris Timberline 4 X 20mm. The Burris was discontinued however they are still producing a low power scout type scope.
I own the Leupold but have no first-hand experience with the Burris. It seems that if the Burris was a popular item it would still be in production.
I think it is a great idea personally. The compact low power scope is highly underrated. A very versatile optic with many possible applications.
The Leupold is light, but still bigger than we’re looking for. I believe the Burris was too. The Colt type scopes are under 6" long iirc, and that’s the size range we’re looking at.
There is already quite a few fixed power 3x and 4x small scopes out there. From high end ACOG’s to low end such as the Burris AR332. Add to that all of the cheap chicom knockoffs and I think the market is pretty full right now.
That’s without a rail mount. But the Japanese scope appears to me to be too low to use properly on an AR without a riser. Probably evens out in the end, but I don’t know for sure.
Based on the price of the Trijicon offerings, I’m guessing that the lack of products in this class is the cost of manufacturing and the limited market. For 1/10th the price you can get all the optical clarity and magnification of an ACOG with a higher weight and without the durability or illumination. Most guys who don’t need that durability will gladly carry an extra 16 ounces to save $900.
That’s not a bash on Trijicon. They offer a great set of products and I wish I had one, but it’s not for everyone.
The Colt scope I mentioned was the inspiration as far as size, and the Japan Optics scope I linked to but wanted it smaller, is under 8 oz and under 6".
Maybe another way for me to put it would be an Aimpoint Pro size scope, in 3 or 4X. Not much in the market like that. And remember, I’m not talking about an AR specific scope. This would work on an AR with the right mount attached, but would also be appropriate for small bolt guns, levers, etc., by just using a 30MM ring or rings.
Maybe another inspiration for me was the similar to Colt AR-180 scope, also made by Hakko, iirc. I had one of the original Costa Mesa guns and sometimes carried it in my patrol car trunk 30 years ago, (against policy). Having that small, easily attached and return to zero scope along, gave me some options for very little in extra weight or size to carry. Even today, when guys see an old Colt or 180 scope for the first time, a lot of them are intrigued with it.
Like I said, it’s a niche concept. and the guys I’ve talked to about it either think it’s a great idea and want one, or can’t understand why anyone would. Just like a lot of optics products out there.
Depending on the price point I think it would be handy.
Brush guns, trunk and truck guns, etc.
Similar items are too far out of my budget to be a reality for the next 5 years or so unless I buy NcStar/UTG, etc. (Which I won’t do). If it managed to come in around $250 or less with the quality roughly about Redfield or certain Vortex offerings I’d be all about one. With enough eye relief a 3 or 4x on my 336 would be excellent. It would still be light and handy but I could see a little better
Like others have said already good glass in that market in the form of the TA33 ACOG amoung others. The TA33 has more than 1.5 inches of eye relief in reality.
Pat
No Pat, there really isn’t. That TA33 is almost 12 ounces, and still has short eye relief. We don’t need the BDC and the price point is higher than it would have to be for our concept.
One could say there was no need for a T1 because that market for a good RDS exists in the M4 or Pro. Different strokes.
Still far more reasonable for us average Joes with kids and other obligations compared to the cost of the Acog. And if the demand is high enough the price will come down.
I don’t think this would necessarily be a good alternative to an ACOG. It couldn’t be built with the same quality/durability for that much less for one thing. But I think it would work for some applications.
I wasn’t saying it needs to be an ACOG lite; just that one of the most prominent of the few options in the fixed low power, compact optics is out of reach for many folks who see the value in such a package minus the amazing durability of the ACOG.
As nice as it would be to have I don’t think I need anything that durable. Let alone there is no way I’d be able to justify a piece of glass that expensive to my wife unless I was using it professionally.
I had a TA33 and with a Larue mount its significantly lighter. Your right different strokes for different folks but the TA 33 felt like a very light set up. Take care.
Pat
It’s 1.5" longer and 1.3 oz heavier than your specs, but when people ask what I consider to be a good short to intermediate range scope for tactical or hunting use, I always point out this one:
At 9.3 oz and 9.5" long, I’ve yet to see anyone think it was a bad option and most think it’s nearly perfect (perfect would be a true 1X to 4X or so). You can get it with an illuminated reticle, but that ups the weight to 14.3oz.
You can also get the illuminated VX-R in a 1.25-4X that’s 9.5" long and 11.5oz.
I realize this isn’t within your specs, but I think if you give up much in the way of performance you might as well just get an Aimpoint H1 and call it a day.
That Leupold is a great scope. Right now we have a Weaver V3 on it which is a little smaller and lighter than the VX3. We’d still like something smaller. And I have both H1’s and a T1. I prefer them to the larger Pro and M4. Some guys don’t.
Like I said, it’s a niche, and not everyone will see the need for an ultra compact magnified optic. Maybe almost nobody, but that what’s I’m curious about.
