I need a better spring for my new 16" midlength setup and have been eye-balling the Tubbs Flatwire CS buffer spring for some time. With the ability to trim some coils for tuning, the spring seems like it would be a positive improvement.
Does anybody have any experience with the flatwire buffer springs?
Why do you need a “better” spring?
I made the foolish mistake of trying this CS nonsense ONCE. All it did was cause problems.
I won’t EVER use CS mag or action springs under ANY circumstances. USGI is stainless for a reason. Big deal! I have to spend $15 every 5 thousand rounds and replace it just like I would my Glock. 
I guess I feel a need to tinker. You’re right, it is not a necessity. I guess I’m just not busy enough right now, tho don’t tell my Lt. that. 
Not talking about the action spring, but what issues did you have with the CS mag springs? You are in a dry environment and should have no corrosion issues.
Just wondering.
I don’t buy a mag spring that’s only good in a dry environment. I don’t buy ANYTHING that’s only good in a dry environment… watch, ammo, flashlight… NOTHING!
Dudes with those stupid springs reported the rust coating on the outside of them despite the fact that they’d never been exposed to significant moisture.
The one I tried was so stiff it would short stroke the Colt 14.5 carbine it was in. Noticably stiffer compared to a USGI spring just racking the BCG back.
Good USGI springs are cheap and work. Just toss out when it starts feeling soft, and put it on a ruler. Shorter than 10.5" it goes in the trash and a new one is put in. I do the gas rings at the same time which is usually every 3k rounds or so.
There are two schools of thought that should govern how you should handle servicing and maintaing your firearm. The first, don’t screw with something that currently works… This is a good rule of thumb to abide by if you are the type of guy that does not beleive to have more knowledge than the good folks over at the firearm manufacturer that designed, engineered, assembled, and tested your firearm. The manufacturer has put considerable time and money in producing a quality, working firearm. So, put the same parts back into your AR15 that originally came with it… This will keep your firearm running and keep you from being frustrated trying to identify why your new ultra gizmo part resulted in a firearm that now has problems.
The second school of thought is don’t screw with something that currently works UNLESS you understand the design, function, and the complete engineered system that makes said firearm function properly. Problems occur when folks who should abide by the first rule of thumb cross over to the second rule and proceed to wreak havolk with a perfectly functioning firearm; unfortunately coming to poor conclusions because they are outside of their field of expertise and sometimes this results in the creation and spreading of mis-information. Folks who abide by this school of thought understand rewards of building the very best, and understand this may be a moving target as better technology, better materials, and better designs superceed what was once the accepted norm.
Moving on to the Tubbs flat wire spring… If you fall into the first school of thought, skip it. If you fall into the second school of thought, and understand that this spring was not designed as a “drop in” installation for an end user, and have an advanced knowledge of how the complete DI AR15 system operates to the point they are comfortable going through a systematic, scientific, and measurable process to reap the reward of building a more robust, more accurate, or more reliable firearm - then the Tubbs CS flatwire spring is for you.
Just know that you will have to adjust the springs length to your particular AR15 SYSTEM. This means that the length of your gas system + type of reciever extenstion + weight of your bolt carrier and the size of your gas port will all play a part in deciding the proper spring length and resulting spring tension.
What is your reward? a lifetime action spring… end of story.
I belong to this second school of thought - for me, the Tubbs CS flatwire spring is a huge upgrade. Because I have selected componenets that function together as one proper system, my AR15 is a super smooth shooting and extremely reliable rifle…
I have just switched to a CS buffer spring http://www.sprinco.com/tactical.html
I use the standard spring rate I only have a little over 400 rounds with the new buffer spring so far so good I need more time with it before I can say its GTG.
I doesn’t need to be trimmed to work and it has been Impregnation / Plating with Re-Micronized Moly Disulfide formulation that makes it feel slightly slicker than the SS one it replaced. I run my BCG wet and also use a light film of oil on the spring not worried about rusting and it has been in the rain since I have installed it.
I bought 11 Brownells aluminum 30 round mags from a local dealer half of them have the CS spring the others are SS. The CS ones have a coating over the spring that has been holding up good I have had them for a 2 years I run my mag springs dry I do use magslick dry lube on them. I will say this I do check them for rust I haven’t found any so far but for guys near the coasts maybe best to use SS or check them frequently for rust just to be sure.
Of course YMMV
I am in a dry environment but I have a bunch of Brownells GI style mags with CS springs and all the springs are still nice and pristine looking after many years.
I use both sorts of springs in my mags. Whatever mags I could get at the time that worked I have. Since most of my new mags are PMAGs, the CS spring mags are put on the shelf for the last year and a half.
nothing but good things to say about tubbs flatwire spring here
Good advice here sir. Thank you for the advice. I definitely fall into the mindset (and am working on the knowledge component) of the 2nd category. I realize that this is a project and will require much fine tuning and tweaking. I enjoy those things and look forward to the tweaking for the advertised benefits. Smoothing-out the recoil cycle, increasing reliability, and having a lifetime component. How did you go about trimming the spring? Is there a place to properly cut the coils? I’m guessing that you cut one at a time, correct?
You are correct - the most important thing to remember is before you go changing anything on the gun understand the function of the complete system, and determine a baseline from the original configuration of the rifle… GI / Milspec or whatever you have.
There are a few benefits this spring brings to the table - the flat wire design allows more room for ample compression, the CM material holds it’s tension much better than a SS spring and will last many times longer. Without going into a dissertation on “how springs work” and to save everyone reading this some time; you need to decide what method of testing is acceptable and reliable to you.
For me, I broke out my old Physics book and flipped to the chapter on springs and re-familiarized myself with them. This included how to calculate and measure a spring’s force. But this is just me - I had to see the change on paper using math first. Familiar with Hooke’s law? Don’t want to be? Take yourself down to the local college and talk to a physics professor and ask if they are interested in having their students measure and compute the force constant of both of your springs… this can give you a mathematical baseline for comparison that can be expressed as a percentage of the original springs force… exactly how aftermarket firearm spring manufacturers such as Wolff rate their replacement springs ==> +10% increase in force or “power” in gun speak… You also have to consider the length of each spring in their natural state vs. what the length will be compressed to once it is installed so you can look at computing the stored energy of each with regards to this application. But wait there is more! Ok, I’m going to stop… Since most folks that claim to be of the second school of thought are most likely not interested - let’s skip this and proceed to trial and error. (Makes you wonder if you are not interested what are you doing in the second school of thought camp? :rolleyes:)
Start out by installing the complete spring and go from there, cutting one coil at a time if necessary in your particular application. For an example, my 18" mid-length Sabre Defense barrel + Spike’s National Match Bolt Carrier (I polished the bearing surfaces) + McFarland gas ring + POF roller cam pin + Larue Stealth upper +STT2 buffer + Magpul UBR buffer tube + Tubbs spring = BUTTER SMOOTH cycling without cutting any coils but my 14.5" rifle needed 5 coils lopped off but it varies in build from the 18".
YMMV - I hope this helps.
I have one and have had no problems. I just dropped it in. I like to screw around with things. I always believed that you can make something better with the right combination. hahah
E-man, There is a lot of irony going on here. We seem to think alike. I’m using a BCM 16" midlength upper w/ FSC556 comp, CMT FA BCG (I, too, polished the carrier’s bearing surfaces), STT2 Buffer, Spike’s Tactical lower (that’s getting picked-up tomorrow), and soon my Tubbs flat-wire buffer spring. It seems we are after the same thing here. Thank you so much for the advice and the information. I’ve actually C&P’d your post to a text file for my future reference. I will let you know how it functions after I get it to the range sometime in the next few weeks.
Sorry about the irony…I’ll knock it down a few notches.
Make sure to test the rifle out with poor hold on it as well (kind of like limp wristing a pistol) to ensure can still function and you are not right on the threshold of the action cycling.
I have my own way of tuning a Tubb’s springs that has for worked for me, I reiterate for me. I take two identical buffer tubes and a spring that works well in the weapon that will be getting the new Tubb’s spring. Put the Tubb’s spring in one tube and the spring that you are happy with in the other and slide a buffer in each spring. Keeping them aligned, push the tubes together on a counter top until the heads of the buffers are touching. You’ll find that the Tubb’s spring needs a few coils cut off before you ever get close to being able to get the buffer tubes close to each other. I cut it so the Tubb’s spring pushes the head of it’s buffer into the other tube by a 1/4". This very low tech method that involves no physics or equations, but it has worked well for me. To me, the advantage of the Tubb’s spring is I now have a spring that will last the life of the barrel and not have a significant loss in strength. YMMV.
As an aside, recently I have had very good luck with the Sprinco standard strength (blue) springs. IMHO the high strength (red) springs are too powerful for most applications.
I have been using the Sprinco CS blue coded buffer spring in my Noveske N4 middy for quite some time with excellent results. My Noveske rifle came with an H buffer and I have ran many differant brands of 5.56 Nato ball through it , the ejection pattern is perfect and it has never malfunctioned. The Sprinco spring is coated against corrosion and I will probably never wear it out. Whats not to like?
E-man, don’t knock it down on my account.
Roger that; limp wrist test. I didn’t think of that. What about ejection pattern? What is desirable and what would constitute being too close to excess spring pressure? Also, do you lube the spring lightly? I’ve heard some people mention this for corrosion protection. What do you think? Thanks for the great info, brother.