Here is what I am thinking with Larue’s leo discount the SCAR and the Predatobr will cost me about the same. The mags are far cheaper for the Larue if I use P mags. The accuracy will probably be better.
The Scar will probably be more reliable. My friend has an OBR and when it was -20 below it would not cycle with Federal Match. It worked with the reloads I made him but not the good stuff. The SCAR is also far more tested since the military adobted it for the SOCOM units. I am torn right now. My intended use would be two fold. 1. As a three gun rifle for heavy tac optics and irons. 2. LEO precision rifle.
I am willing to accept 1.5 moa with good ammo. I would like better but this is what I can live with. But I also want it to be reliable at all costs. What do you guys thing?
Pat
How often will you be operating at -20? If it is a duty rifle the thing needs to go bang first and formost. I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that either one will fit your need until you wring it out in your AO. That is an extreme weather environment. It could lead to a very expensive learning curve if it is done on your own dime.
Given your criteria, reliability uber alles, the SCAR is the clear choice.
Colt is claiming sub MOA for the LE901. Not sure if it meets your other specs, or if you want to wait, but just thought I’d throw that out there.
http://www.policeproducts.com/images/LE901.pdf
I believe Grant said Colt said March delivery, but who knows with Colt.
Was this an early OBR? The newer ones have a new ‘feature’ that is supposed to aid in reliability. Don’t know if that would have helped your buddies rifle work better.
I’m leaning PreadtOBR because I would like something with more accuracy than a typical battle rifle. I’d like .5 to 1 MOA for the setup I’m going for. But if maximum reliability is the main concern and 1.5 MOA is acceptable, the SCAR would probably be the better choice.
Quick question, what kind of malfunctions were you witnessing and were you able to trace it down to a single variable?
If it’s a simple lube related issue, then there are others out there that are rated for extreme cold.
I would go with anything other than the SCAR.
go with the Larue and just lube the BCG and inside of the upper with some Automatic Transmission Fluid when planning to shoot in sub-zero temps… ATF is a cheap solution that works just as well as the other “specialty” low-temp lubes out there.
And I’d spray a few liberal coats of WD-40 in the FCG and Buffer Spring just to alleviate any excess moisture that could potentially freeze and cause problems.
But unless you live in Saskatchewan or Nightmute, I wouldn’t look at shooting in sub-zero temps as a year-round issue, if so you might need to look at a bolt gun by AI…
you could even go as far as having a few swirl grooves cut in the exterior of the Bolt Carrier to help “unstick” things as it moves, much like the bolt in the AI and McMillan guns
Agree.
C4
Consider that the LaRue has a better trigger by default, but you can upgrade the SCAR trigger if you are unhappy with it.
I like them both - and cannot decide myself.
You’re going to argue that the Larue is proven to be more reliable than the SCAR 17? Really?
I would give LaRue a call and get some more info.
IIRC, the Suitcase rifle is the 14.5" 762 PredatOBR that had been purchased in quantity by Texas Rangers. Perhaps, LaRue could give you a contact to see what the else Rangers considered and get info on their T&E data.
I’m tired of agonizing over this and have chosen—I’m going to buy one of each. I’m buying the Larue immediately upon release and the Scar once the mag fiasco resolves itself. If I clearly prefer one over the other I’ll sell one, if not I’ll keep both.
I don’t believe the word “anything” can only mean the Larue OBR… there are plenty of better options than the SCAR 17… the SR-25, HK417 etc.
It was a failure to fully cycle. My reloads were a bit warmer so they did work. I am not saying the rifle sucked.It was just a concern as it does get cold up here.
Right now I am leaning towards the Larue because of cost. The Scar is going to cost me 2700 to 2900 then there is $400 for the Geisselle trigger, $480 in magazines, and $200 for an extended forearm. Still have not made up my mind but after looking at it the SCAR is going to cost me a lot more cash.
pat
You’re running off at the mouth about things you don’t know about…again. The SR25 is known for its unreliability, both in its original guise and as an M110 - it’s only VERY recently that the EMC and later models have had anything approaching reliability compared to a 6920. And if you’ve got extensive experience with the HK417 (which is not available for individual officer purchase anyway) please, enlighten us about that.
The SCAR is the most tested small arm in military history - perhaps the most tested small arm ever. It’s not perfect, just like a Glock isn’t perfect - but if you had to pick a 7.62 from currently manufactured rifles on the basis of reliability, (assume you cannot buy a new H&K-manufactured G3 for the purposes of that argument) the SCAR will MOST LIKELY give you the best reliability, just the same as if you had to pick a pistol at random to take out of the box and go to war with, the Glock would be the safest bet.
The AR10 variants, in their best form, are fucking NICE rifles - but none of them have been through even half what the SCAR went through, and passed, in its testing process. Yes, the OBR, EMC, and MWS will whip its ass for accuracy, but let’s play -20 with debris, grease, powder fouling, and questionable ammo and see what happens.
The OP asked for reliability above everything else. Being that he can’t buy a new HK91/G3, the SCAR is going to be it.
Which trigger? I have an SSA-E in my N6 and it’s wonderful for precision and battle rifle duty.
The Super-SCAR. The only one Geissele makes for it.
Haha. I feel like that picture most days.
If you search the AAR threads over at Lightfighter, you’ll see Freddie Blish ran a PredatAR through some high volume rifle classes with good success. Granted, it was usually done in hot, dusty environments rather than cold wet ones. Freddie now works at LaRue and would probably be happy to answer any questions you have about performance in cold weather.
A couple of data points from my limited experience with the OBR and SCAR:
The stock trigger on the SCAR is no Geisselle, but it’s not terrible either. The one I shot was about what you would expect from a decent AR trigger (say, a Colt). If you are primarily after a battle rifle, it would work fine as is IMO. The guy that owns it claims it’s a 1.5 MOA shooter.
As to the OBR, they may not have as much testing as the SCAR, but they are seeing combat with some groups, as well as LE service. The PredatOBRs are delayed to fulfill a contract with the Texas Rangers. They are also popular with precision rifle competitors. As a precision rifle, the OBR is the standout.
I think the concensus on this thread still stands though: if absolute reliability is your main concern and 1.5 MOA is ok, the SCAR is probably the best choice. The OBRs (to include all variants that LaRue makes) aren’t necessarily unreliable, but in a head-to-head match-up I’d give the edge to the SCAR. If you value accuracy more than absolute reliability, then the OBR is a better choice.
For me personally, I wanted a gun that would shoot .5-.75 MOA. I’m willing to get that with some minor sacrifice in reliability. I also want to run suppressed so I’m waiting on the PredatOBR with the PST gasblock. Given your criteria though, I would take a long look at the PredatAR. It’s $500 less than the PredatOBR and a bit lighter. It shoots almost as well as the heavy barreled OBRs, at least for the first couple of magazines.
I think the real lesson from this thread is that the market for good 7.62 products is growing in leaps and bounds. We haven’t even talked about the new lighter versions of the LMT or the new Colt 901. 5 or so years ago this conversation would be G3 vs FAL vs M1A.
I guess I should revise what I want. I said 1.5 moa because in the past my experiences with .308 autos has not been that great for accuracy. My GAP AR10 was a 1.25 moa gun but it weighed close to17 pounds with optics, bipod etc. My former AR10 carbine was around 12 or so and it was a 2 moa gun. What I want is as much accuracy as possible in a package that does not weight much over 10 pounds and still have reliablity. How accurate is the SCAR?
Pat