I have searched several times and couldn’t really find the answer that I am looking for.
I have a Colt 6920 that I am wanting to put optics on.
I am setting this up as a personal defensive rifle. To help defray training costs and improve my familiarity I am planning on using this rifle for hunting as well as training/paper shooting.
Because of its mixed use, I was thinking that a low power variable with BUIS would be the best bet.
Am I off in my thinking?
Has anyone used a setup similar for this for training/hunting?
I have thought about the RDS and 3X magnifier option but that is getting out of my budget but if it makes more sense, I will shell it out.
It is completely viable employment.
IMO, low-powered variables are the way to go unless you have a very specific need.
That being said, the Accupoint should meet most user’s needs in daylight, with less transitional / irregular lighting issues as ACOGS have. Other options will be a bit better, due to powered reticles, but the price-point is very appealing.
I have a TR-24G, in a Larue LT-135 on a Colt 6920. It works well with the extended eye relief, and I prefer having the scope mounted at that height.
I still have the FSB attached, but have a DD RIS as well. That works very nice, I have the Surefire X300 light mounted out in front, for a 12:00 mount.
Frankly, the carbine is a big heavy beast. But it’s quite accurate, and with that weight and a PWS FSC556 it has no perceptible muzzle rise.
I have used it for training, but have not hunted with it.
May I be so bold as to suggest you buy a cattail from 3-Gun Stuff?
I have one, and love it. Fast and easy to change magnification. It’s not cheap, but very well made, and fits perfectly.
You might also look at the new ADM mount. It had not been released when I bought mine. Grant has got a very good deal on that combo. Shoot him a PM for a special handshake.
I did have a TR24 on my Colt for a time. Its an excellent scope and you will be happy with it. I prefer the Red Triangle reticle. Before I had the TR24 on my Colt I had a Aimpoint M4 with a Magnifier in a Larue flip mount behind it. I much prefer the TR24. I know have a TA33 and a T1 aimpoint on my Colt.
I sold the TR24 with a Daniel Defense M4 I owned to a Alaska State Trooper that needed it.
I prefer my Swarovski Z6i to the TR24 but it cost over twice as much.
I have one on my stock 16 inch LMT patrol with a AMD recon mount and really like it. It was my understanding that the TR24 was made with mil/LE in mind. The TR24 is the answer to what the TR21 was lacking for this role. I have put no hard use on mine,but would also like to hear from someone who has.
No problem. Keep in mind the effect does change as the power is adjusted. I think it was on 4x when I took the pic. On 1x you can see it more. It really is never an issue to me.
Awesome scope - I moved my CompM4 w/3x magnifier to another rifle and the Accupoint is my main scope.
After a bit of research, went with the green triangle. Very fast for the role. Point on triangle for finer accuracy.
Only negatives I can tell is what you read about - firing from a dark location to a bright outdoor area(e.g. covered shooting range) Just is begging for some external light source to brighten triangle). Second is not really a negative, but what the scope really is, no ranging/bullet drop info.
Well, I got to see a Accupoint in person today while picking up another rifle at my local gun shop (L&A Firearms, great guys).
I just wanted to post this incase others are in the same situation as I am.
Things I learned:
The good:
-The front sight post really isn’t an issue. It is visible at 1x but is below your aiming area by quite a bit and at 4x it is for all intents and purposes invisible.
-It is extremely clear glass with bright crisp edges.
-The triangle was very bright and easy to pick up.
The bad:
-As others have mentioned, it isn’t as forgiving as a RDS for head position.
-Looking through it with both eyes open makes me cross eyed…
When I put it down on 1X and look through it I see double images. Technically I could go with the image on the right and I would probably be hitting the correct one, but it is a little disconcerting. And depending on where I put my head, the images would sometimes overlap. When moving the gun, or walking while looking through the scope I was getting a little vertigo. Something that I could train out of? Maybe, but I think I will pass for now and go for the RDS and save up a little more scratch and get the 3x magnifier.
So thanks for everyone’s advice, but I want to leave a bit of my own for anyone reading this thinking the same thing that I was. You need to make sure that you try it out yourself before you fork over the cash, it might not work for you.
The cross eyed thing is strange. Perhaps you don’t have the focus adjusted properly for your vision. I shoot everything with both eyes open and it has never been a problem.
pat
I run my TR24G in the LaRue LT-135 (1.93" height) mount which gives a similar cheek weld as an RDS/Eotech+riser mount with a lower 1/3 co-witness. It works well from zero to 300 yards for me. It gives me more of a “heads-up” field of vision for close-up work, and at extended distances the higher mount does not negatively effect my sight picture at all.
The cross-eyed thing sounds like you may need to adjust the focus as previously mentioned by A.P.
I have been running mine on one of my duty rifles since last July and I am completely sold on the set-up (TR24G in the LaRue LT-135 mount). I am only very slightly faster on CQB drills with my Eotech XPS than I am with the TR24G.
The illumination sources work in every lighting condition I have used the scope in. The green fiber optic source in-conjunction with the F/O sun shade works phenomenally in all daylight conditions, and the tritium works very good for low/no-light. NO batteries to be concerned about:)
I have been able to shoot out to 300yds with it during the ITOA’s bi-annual Rifle Field Training Exercises (FTX), and the green triangle works great for both CQB and 300yd shots. You just need to know your hold-offs. I place the tip of the green triangle right between the eyes to get high/center mass hits on the military pop-up silhouette targets @ 300yds. (I use a 100yd zero, and at 300yds my hold-over is 12-13 inches)
As far as durability goes, it has been banged around a bit in the trunk of my squad car and a bunch of training and it hasn’t lost zero or suffered any other mishaps, but that can mostly be attributed to the LaRue mount. The scope feels solid as can be expected.
I also run a “Cattail” magnification throw lever from 3GG on mine and it is the best thing since sliced bread.
I hadn’t thought about the focus. Since I wear glasses, it may very well have been setup by someone who has less than perfect vision and with my corrected 20/15 it might have been causing that double image.
I didn’t see that double image at the 1.5 magnification setting, just at the 1X setting. Hmm… I have to go back there next week to get my new M&P 15 22, so I’ll try and adjust the focus for my eyes.
I really liked everything about it except the double vision at 1X.
I went back to the local fun shop today to pick up my new M&P 22 and while I was there, I looked at the TR24 again as well as comparing it side by side with a Aimpoint M4.
I figured out what I was doing wrong… I was focusing on the retical instead of looking through it at the target. :rolleyes: That is why I was seeing a double image.:eek: Once I focused on the target and not the triangle, bingo, no more double image.
I also prefer the view through the TR24 to the Aimpoint quite a bit. I think, if I ever do go Aimpoint, I will get a 4 MOA dot, even with the M4 turned all the way up to max, it was not as noticeable to me when focusing on the target aiming through the dot. I would lose it at times, I think the 4 MOA dot would be much better for a CQB type sight with my eyes.
Thanks for the help guys. A TR24G with a LT-135 mount is on the way as I type.
Great glass, didn’t really see much of a problem with the reticle washing out (with a 6P flashlight on the wall). It isn’t as bright as it could be, but it doesn’t disappear.
Unfortunately, the LT-135 mount is just too high for me. I must have a short face.
I could not get a consistent/comfortable cheek-weld. With the reticle centered my cheek was just touching the stock, but if I went prone or had some other reason to climb the stock a little, I would just see the mount and a half moon of light. If I was in a hurry and just pulled the rifle up from ready, I would only see about half of the viewing area. I would have to reposition my head so that the lower part of my cheek (closer to my chin) was just touching the stock. My normal cheek weld is just below my cheekbone. I tried it for about 3 days including shooting/sighting it in on Saturday. I just couldn’t make it work for me. When prone/or braced across a garbage can, I had to lift my head above the stock with no cheek weld at all.
I personally don’t have any experience with RDS and lower 1/3 cowitness, so that may be part of my problem. I compared it to several other rifles (including an AR with a lower mount and a higher powered scope) and I think it will be better for me to go with the standard LT-104 mount.
Fortunately, my brother loved it on his SCAR (and with the adjustable cheek piece it wasn’t too bad for me) so he is going to buy it from me.
So for others reading this in the same boat (Small face), try to get someone who you know that has a LT-135 to let you try it out. It might save you some time and money.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Edit to add: Especially those of you who like me, have more years of experience with hunting rifles/shotguns/Iron site AR’s but none in .mil or LEO using lower 1/3 cowitness.
While doing my search for a 1x4 optic I was strongly leaning towards the TR24 but it was hard getting past the triangle reticle. The thought of not having to change batteries was intriguing but not enough to make me lay down cash.
I ended up buying a Burris XTR with the 5.56 BDC reticle, and I’m not disappointed in any way…the XTR is a real nice optic.
