I am looking for some advice. I purchased my first modern “fighting rifle” (an LE6920) a few months ago and have about 600 rounds through it. My background in firearms had been primarily competition pistols, clay shooting, and historic and black powder rifles.
Right now my rifle holds 1.5 MOA with M855 which impressed me. However making that happen with the stock trigger takes quite a bit of concentration. I hate the trigger and know what a good trigger feels like. My 1911 triggers feel like hair triggers compared to my AR.
I also had some initial zeroing issues until I started shooting using the mag as a rest point. Resting on the hand guards causes the groups to open up or shift considerably.
I temporarily slapped a JPoint MRD sight that I had on their AR mount to the rifle. I wanted to see if I like the red dot before I considered an Aimpoint. I have an astigmatism and realized I probably wont like a red dot past 50 yards (it would have to be 2MOA). I was considering a 1-4 optic instead.
So that my wife doesn’t complain I would like to spread these purchases over the next few months…so what should I get first-a FF rail, trigger (looking at a Geissele), or optic?
Disclaimer: I am enrolled for Carbine I and II over the next 2 months and I’m sitting on 1500 rounds of ammo. So I’m not looking for the “buy more ammo and get some training” answer here.
I know this is not target rifle but accuracy adds a considerable amount to the fun factor for me. Plus I like the confidence accurate rifles bring.
Based on your exact situation, I would get either the trigger or free-float first, and probably the trigger, just because you apparently have the skill to shoot well already, but have identified the trigger as making it more difficult for you than it should be. I have to say that 1.5 MOA seems pretty good for M855 in an LE6920.
I like 1-4x optics but you may not like how it works on an LE6920 with the standard FSB right in the way. Either you’ll see a lot of blurry FSB at 1x (and some at higher power), or you’ll have to mount the scope so high that cheekweld is poor. You could swap out the FSB for something low profile when you do a FF rail, but you’re starting to get into major changes to the rifle at that point and may want to consider whether building a different configuration from scratch would be better and more economical than putting $100’s of modifications into the 6920.
Unless you feel that you have mastered your irons such that you can reliably perform with them under stress and in spite of exhaustion, I would not recommend graduating to an optic yet. I made the mistake of graduating too soon like far too many other shooters and regardless of your trust in your optic, it simply doesnt make sense to rely on something so complex and inherently unreliable.
Like others have said, you wont notice the difference in trigger feel unless you’re benchrested and I presume you wont be benrested at a carbine class. It is not essential right now.
Therefore, out of the options you’ve suggested, I’d recommend a rail. It will open up a “whole nother” world of options, (read as: expenses), to you and increase accuracy. If you need rail suggestions, dont hesitate to ask here.
If options were opened up, I’d make sure you have proper load bearing, cleaning and safety equipment for your classes and that you have a good stockpile of mags.
A free float tube isn’t needed for a carbine class and it sounds like you haven’t made up your mind what optic you want. I nthat case, get the trigger.
Life is too short to suffer with poor triggers. I realize several folks advise sucking it up and learning to use the stock trigger with all it’s disadvantages, but it makes no sense to me.
It takes time and practice to learn to live with a trigger that has too much creep and a gritty pull (if it didn’t, why the advice to learn to live with it?). Doesn’t that makes it a more advanced technique? Indeed, for as long as I can remember, it’s been said by some very knowledgeable people that a good rifleman has learned to shoot well even with poor triggers. It’s impossible to avoid all bad triggers, especially when shooting a wide selection of firearms and a shooter will need to learn to deal with them.
If it’s an AR issued by your unit or department, ok. Buckle down and learn to put up with it. Perhaps an issue trigger will smooth out with several thousand rounds of use. Then again, it may not. If it’s a personal weapon, why not get a smooth reliable trigger right from the start?
A trigger doesn’t have to have a light pull to be a good trigger. Indeed, a trigger with a clean, consistent 12 lbs break is much better than a gritty, creepy, inconsistent pull of 3 lbs. Matter of fact, the gritty, creepy, inconsistent pull of 3 lbs can be downright scary! Any trigger that’s too light is scary, good or bad.
A good trigger gives the shooter positive control and greater confidence with the firearm. It may not be necessary, but I have never heard of anyone, after installing a good reliable trigger with proper pull weight, wishing they had their gritty, creepy trigger back
I am not advocating never upgrading his trigger. I am simply saying that it is reasonable to become proficient with your common, OEM triggers before advancing.
I would analogize upgrading your trigger right out of the gate and then having to adapt back to a regular-weight, gritty, nasty, peasant-level trigger at some point down the road, (possibly when SHTF), to training for any martial art with competition-weight gloves and then actually fighting with training-weight gloves.
Assuming you’re proficient with irons, OP, I actually see no issue with a cheap Aimpoint (R1, H1 or PRO). So either an optic or rail IMO. Just my two cents though.
I can’t for the life of me understand people that feel the need to run out and replace the stock AR trigger. It’s more than serviceable for a carbine, it’s much better than most other triggers in various combat weapons. It’s not a precision gun, so having a super nice trigger isn’t needed, although it is nice to add one down the road AFTER you get the rest of your gear figured out. I would much rather spend the money on glass, then a rail, then a trigger last if you really feel your trigger is limiting you. If you think the stock trigger is affecting your ability than YOU are the problem honestly.
It sounds like you have a good grasp on using your iron sights and the stock trigger if you are truly holding 1.5" groups @ 100yds with surplus ammo. I would recommend getting the optic first as you will likely get the most benefit from an optic vs the other options on your list. A free float handguard will give you minimal benefits, if any in-terms of your accuracy.
A new trigger may help a bit with accuracy, but an optic will give you a measurable improvement in speed and target aquisition. I would recommend either an Aimpoint C3 (2 moa dot) or a Eotech EXPS 2-0 (1 moa dot).
If you are looking at 1-4x variable power scopes, i really like my trijicon TR24G. For 0-300yds it is in my opinion ideal for the 16" AR platform carbine. Beyond 300yds things get a little sketchy as it does not have a ranging reticle, just a big 'ol green triangle. But again, from 0-300yds you dont need a ranging eeticle if you know your zero and your hold-overs.
Since you want to buy all 3 eventually, I’m not going to tell you to master your irons first or to learn to master the stock single stage trigger first or learn to fundamentally shoot a slick rifle first;)
I would go
Optic which will make you appreciate your 2nd purchase more (1st)
Geissele SSA which will “help” extend your LR shots (2nd)
If you are already used to good triggers, the stock AR trigger sucks. Get the better trigger at some point. Whether now of after the optic is debatable.
A good 1-4 optic (or 1-6 if you can afford it) is very usable with a standard FSB so long as it’s mounted in a standard high mount (~1.6" above the rail). For that reason I would suggest the free float rail, and possible shaving of the FSB, be last.
I have an astigmatism and use a T1. Inside or where light is dim it gets a little stary but when outside in good light it’s a nice clean dot. Even with the dot being jacked up due to my astigmatism, I still prefer it to a 1-4 because of it’s compact size, light weight and ease of use from awkward shooting positions.
If I had to go with a variable 1-4 under 3k; it would be the TR24 with triangle reticle. If I had gobs of money to blow it would be a Short Dot. I have a TR24G and love it. It’s very fast to acquire, almost as fast as a red dot. The only downsides are weight, reticle washout under weird lighting conditions (you still have a black reticle, just not lit) and it’s more difficult to pick up under weird shooting positions than a red dot.
If going with a 1-4, I would do it in conjunction with a nice stock, trigger, and rail system.
Personally, I would mount a good white light on that carbine before putting any of the items you listed on it. Second, I’d go optic, third I’d go handguard, and I would never even dream of putting a drop in trigger in a fighting weapon.
I posted this and then went over to the range to test out some cheap Brown Bear I bought for the carbine class. It worked but it is not accurate stuff!
In any event, I noticed that the JPoint (actually and old Optima 2000) that works fine on a 1911 slide for 11 years and thousands of rounds keeps moving out of zero. Frustrating.
But maybe not as frustrating as the damn trigger. It is horrible. At about 200 rounds the creep almost disappeared but now it back worse than before somehow:blink:
I agree with MistWolf that a good trigger inspires confidence and IMHO safer. Kinda like how a sharp knife is safer than a dull knife when your dicing onions, etc.
So I was thinking of going with the trigger first…but the red dot would be fun if it could stay zeroed. Just to clarify, I have been able, on several occasions, to shoot 1.5 MOA but I need to use a target large enough to allow me to easily center the 3.5 MOA dot in the black. I mentioned that more to show the accuracy of the rifle rather than the shooter. I think i got a good barrel. I shoot about 3 MOA with irons off a rest. If I go with an Aimpoint I’m thinking the a 2 MOA dot will be the best option. Maybe that new PRO?
As far as a rail I have considered FSP cutout models (DD 12" and 9.5" FSP or JPoint VTAC with carbine extender)as well as going the LP gas block and Troy TRX route. If I go with a 1-4 scope I will probably do that. I would like a 1-4 with a BDC reticle but the wife will not be happy if I spend more than $700. I had looked at the Burris TAC 30.
I know the rifle is set up fine already for a “fighting rifle” but fighting rifles get boring if that is all they can do.
A nice match trigger, especially a two stage may feel nicer but will do very little to improve your shooting unless we are talking about a extreme accuracy shot at extended distances. An optic will benefit you far more in terms of general shooting for what a 16" carbine is intended for (0-300yds).
In my opinion a two stage trigger inhibits most shooters ability to shoot drills which require multiple rapid shots on target.
