Trigger Control

Training Training and Tactics
1

Ive been shooting for a couple of years now and ive come a long way since i first picked up a gun. Ive put alot of work and alot of time into working on the fundamentals of marksmanship. Ive taken classes from LAV, Rob Pincus(thanks again), and Todd Jarrett. Im also a LEO who holds that highest honor for marksmanship that his department awards(which isnt really that impressive). That being said…my trigger control issues have got me ready to jump off of a tall building.

I use dummy rounds for ball and dummy drills constantly and I just cant seem to get past the anticipation. I also dry fire religiously and can perform a perfect press all day without ammo in the gun…but when the time comes to load up, I blow it. I put so much time into shooting that luckily Ive gotten pretty good at pulling the trigger quickly without seriously disturbing my sight alignment. But that isnt good enough for me anymore. When I put bullets into my gun its like i lose the ability to perform a slow smooth trigger press. It might start out slow, but it quickly deteriorates into some kind of mutant el snatcho press.
Im looking for ANY advice that you guys have got. Seriously… Any reccomendations, vetted witchdoctors, or herbal supplements are welcome and greatly appreciated.

2

I have the same problem, I think it comes from being a human and setting off an explosion right next to your head.

I can only recommend, as a fellow sufferer, that you A) continue with LAV and other tier one trainers that practice ball and dummy drills at classes B) use snap caps in your magazines at the range C) when you anticipate do remedial dry fire
D) Let me know if you come up with something that works better :smiley:

Every trigger press is a chance to get it right. In my opinion, dry fire is better suited for specific manipulations like the press out, it has less benefit for anticipation because you know the gun is unloaded. You have to not know if it is a live round for there to be progress, I think.

M_P

3

You are not alone . . . :wink:

4

Good to know…but its still incredibly frustrating because its STUPID!!! I know the gun isnt going to hurt me when it goes off, and I know if I smoothly press the trigger straight to the rear then the bullet will go where im aiming. Yet I cant do it!

5

I found the info and responses in this thread very helpful.

6

Good link, thank you. Todd G mentioned “crushing trough the end of the press” in one of his posts in that thread. That is what I am doing. And when I try and go slower and hit a dummy round its like I spaz out and pull the sights off target or dip the gun because I know the boom is coming. Ridiculous…

7

Two points:

Ball & Dummy. Understand that B&D is for slow fire practice. If you’re putting snap caps in all your mags while practicing rapid fire drills, you’re going to think you’re anticipating when you’re not. There is a fine line between anticipation (bad) and post-ignition push (which is good). That fine line is indicated by the gun going BANG.

Trigger control is overrated. I know, it’s heresy. But I regularly do a demo in which I slap the trigger as hard as humanly possible, bringing my trigger finger from all the way outside the trigger guard and smash through the trigger as quick and hard as I can. Normally, I hit within a few inches of my POA at 7yd. Why? Because if your sights are properly aligned, you have a strong 2-handed grip, and you don’t anticipate the shot there really isn’t an easy way for your trigger finger alone to overcome all the other muscles in your hands, arms, and chest that are keeping the gun on target.

Trigger control starts to matter when you’re trying to be precise at speed up close (which I think is an important skill to have) or for longer-than-normal pistol distances (which I also think is an important skill to have). But anticipation and grip problems are the usual barriers to marksmanship for a lot of people.

8

I only use ball and dummy drills for slow fire, and from what I can tell Im anticipating. I crush through the last bit of trigger press and cause the gun to dip.

Im in agreement with you 100%. Like I said in my first post im actually a pretty good shooter considering my anticipation problem. I regularly shoot 3 inch groups at 7-10 yards while pressing the trigger quickly. And I can keep all m shots on Q target at 25 yards. Thats fine for PD quals, but not OK with me. LAV preaches 5-6 inch groups at 25 yards and that is my goal. I feel like in order to do that i need to be able to perform a slow perfect trigger press… But I cant

EDIT: by the way im glad you showed up…Im seriously considering jumping into one of your upcoming classes in northern VA.

9

Sproggy – Here is what I’m hearing so far:

[ul]
[li]You know what you’re doing.
[/li][li]You know what you’re doing wrong.
[/li][li]You know how to fix it.
[/li][/ul]

All things considered, that’s not a bad place to be. I’d simply recommend putting time into the B&D drill and little else until you’re managing things the way you want. What gun, caliber, and ammo are you using?

You might also want to consider:

[ul]
[li]B&D strong- and weak-hand only. The SHO/WHO drills tend to put folks in a less anticipatory mindset because they don’t have an expectation of keeping the gun locked still in space as it goes off.
[/li][li]Get better hearing protection, if possible. Folks with serious ingrained flinches are often sensitive to blast. If you’re not doubling up (muffs + plugs) do so. If you’re using low-NRR muffs with or without low-NRR plugs, upgrade to more protection.
[/li][li]Try shooting some close bullseye targets with your eyes closed. I know, it sounds crazy. But closing your eyes will eliminate performance anxiety related to marksmanship and will also let you really focus your attention on how your hands and arms are moving as the trigger is about to break.
[/li][/ul]

10

I have trigger control issues with my Glock 26, I am definitly gonna’ be following this thread. Takes a big man to admit he has a problem, especially in this subject.:wink:

11

Sproogy,
Trigger control is not over rated, it is critical, and the flinch is probably the hardest thing for a shooter to overcome. So don’t beat yourself up to badly.
The advice you’re getting on dry firing and working on the ball and dummy drill is right, however you need to take it back a step further, really focus on trigger.

You need to place a target at 5 yards and put a paster in the center. Then taking whatever time you need, get 5 rounds in the same whole. Yes 5 rounds in the same hole. When you can do that at 5 move to 7 yards. THIS IS CRITICAL–Relax the grip, relax the shoulders, relax the whole body. Don’t muscle the gun, that will only give you problems, breathe, Then SLOWLY SQUEEZE the trigger, let it surprise you. Don’t slap it, that’s shitty trigger technique. It might work for fast shots, but it’s taking away from overall proper fundamental.

You mentioned getting all your rounds in the Q target at 25 yards. You should be able to get all rounds inside an 8" circle at that distance. Trigger is what’s probably killing your accuracy at that distance if you’re like the average shooter.

If you can’t perform the proper fundamentals at 5 yards, you can’t expect to do it at 15 or 25.
How do you know you’re getting it right, by shooting 5 rounds in the same hole at 5 then 7 yards.

You sound like you know what’s wrong and how to fix it. So it might be mental. What I do to help me get away from MY trigger control issues is I talk to myself (silently) during the trigger press when going for real accuracy. I tell myself trigger, trigger, trigger. That helps me a lot, and I can shoot the 8" at 25.

Being sloppy at short distances will only get worst at longer ranges.

If you try what I just wrote and you take your time, stay relaxed, breathe, again stay relaxed grip too , really focus, and you slowly squeeze the trigger I guarantee you’ll do better. When you start to see improvment, add a bit more speed. With time it will come together.
Just try it. You’ll see.

R.

12

Not sure sure how well problems can be diagnosed over the internet…

Do you have the anticipation problem when you conduct slow-fire accuracy drills?

You might consider working accuracy and speed drills separately…ending sessions with slowfire accuracy drills. I only shoot as fast as I can maintain accuracy standards. If groups open up too much I slow down.

Also, can’t you e-mail the instructors you listed? I can’t imagine they wouldn’t help a former student out.

13

Trigger control, like sight alignment, exists on a sliding scale. Some of the top competitivde shooters out there have trigger control that is horrible…but they still get their hits. Just as I don’t need a bullseye perfect sight picture to make a good hit at say 5 yards, I can sacrifice some level of refinement in my trigger manipulation in the interest of making faster shots.

Bullseye shooting is good for establishing a baseline for what proper trigger control looks like and 99% of shooters can benefit from conscious effort to develop excellent fundamentals.

14

I won’t add anything to the good advice you’ve been given, but another good drill that might help you is Howe’s “Five and One” Drill.

five dry fire shots
one live round
repeat x5

You will do a total of 25 dry fires and five live rounds.

Good luck.

15

I would agree with this. But for training purposes and troubleshooting purposes, one should have the proper fundamentals down to get very precise shots. Then as speed is introduced we learn the amount of prefect sight picture we can sacrifice and still make the shot. But if you can’t make a perfect shot with all the time in the world at 5 to 7y or further, you can’t be expected to make the shot in more challenging circumstances.

Too many people think they’re good shooters because they can shoot “double taps” at 5-7 yards, which any fool can do , so they don’t work on the fundamentals or are unaware of the bad habit’s they have. But now ask them to keep 5 shots inside a 2" dot at 5yards and they can’t, or try to shoot a head shot at 15 yards, and they can’t. Now go out to 25 and further and things get even more difficult. The target looks like it got shot with 00 buck instead of wiht a pistol. Making head shot at 15 or shooting past 25 yards is not unrealistic either. Ask the cops involved in the Hollywood shooting years ago. Their closest range was 40 yards. And none of this is including stress, add that and forget it, you’re not hitting the side of a barn from the inside.

R.

16

Psst - um, dude. We already know all that stuff.

Maybe check out some past threads and such first. Don’t get angry, I’m just saying I’ve stood next to JW777 at over a hundred yards making hits on a steel A zone while Larry Vickers runs the timer.

M_P

17

TK,

Any time limits on that?

18

Im in no way shape or form an expert on any subject matter but I do have a similar anticipation problem and I have a friend who ran this drill with me a few times and it actually helped considerably.
What he did was made me empty all of my mags and clear my weapon.
He then took a few of my mags and a few rounds and loaded every other mag with a round.
Not knowing which mags he loaded and which ones he didn’t, he gassed it up and handed me my weapon. I got in the low ready and he gave me a fire command.
The drill helped ease the initial shock of the first shot and helped him analyze a plethora of other problems I was having.
We usually run this before running drills as sort of a warm up. Hope that helps

19

Who’s angry, I’m making a statement. some people dont’ know, and sice this if exchange information i think it’ relevant.

Someone has thin skin. :smiley:

R.

20

From what I have read, no.

Shot from the ready on small dots. I would say start at three yards.

It would be really helpful if you can shoot with a buddy who can watch what you are doing when you are shooting.