I see so many ARs with quad rails on them, acres and acres of rails that are just covered up with additional products (ladders).
Did the industry sort of steer buyers into thinking they need acres of uber expensive rails on all four sides of the hand guard? And then a bunch of plastic ladders to cover all those rails up?
I’m sure some guys make a lot of use of all that rail-age, and I can see how laddered rails can make for a good grip on the hand guard, but that seems to be a really expensive approach. I’m getting a sense that a lot of AR buyers are returning to the simpler, leaner, less-rail covered hand guards and that many experienced AR buyers are tending to steer away from quad rails.
If I’m reading it right, the pulse seems to be leaning toward the TRX Extreme, VTAC, and the Magpul MOE and away from quad rails. I’m quite content with a VTAC, TRX, or MOE myself and can’t really see the attraction of quad rails. I could be missing something, though. :rolleyes:
Do you think there is a trend to move away from quad rails and return to less-railed hand guards?
It all depends on need. If you are a civilian and all you are doing is adding a light and VFG then you probably don’t need it.
If you are doing something else having the ability to accessorize is probably a smart thing. It’s like everything else AR related. It’s all based on preference.
I cover my rails that are being used at the moment to prevent them from getting damaged.
Yeah… I’m just a simple ordinary citizen looking to an AR for home defense and pleasure shooting. A light, perhaps a T-1 and I’m done, as far as my needs go. I look at guns like the way Chris Costa has his set up with what looks to me like 5 lbs. of various gear hanging off top, bottom, and both sides and can’t imagine using a gun with so much stuff hanging off of it. He obviously feels a need for all that high tech stuff (in addition to TWO flashlights-main and back up!) and no doubt knows how to use it well, but I just can’t relate to it myself. Perhaps in time I will. On second thought… no, most likely not. I can see how some newbies might see all those possibilities and be motivated to quad-up and then fill the gun up with devices, but that is no doubt a trap that might be best to steer clear of, for some considerable period of time anyway.
Iraq… what is your primary AR and how is it set up?
Trend? yes. which means exactly jack except good marketing. The AR world is no different than any other male-dominated hobby where 5% actually use the products the way they were intended and 95% pretend to do so and just follow the herd (think I’m wrong? go to any truck or car or motorcycle forum and spend enough time to get a feel for the various members. or look at how few lifted Jeeps ever get anything more than road grime on them).
To be sure the lighter weight and user-defined rail location can be a benefit, mostly in terms of weight savings. However if you have a need to attach more than a few things the inefficient method of adding rails can quickly add up to weighing more than a quad-rail system. Additionally, if the end-user doesn’t have the experience to know where they are going to want to mount things, having small sections of rail that requires them to un-bolt and re-bolt the rail sections when they want to move something to try a new setup or product can be a major pain in the ass. Taking the most basic example, the VFG, if someone has a tube system and finally gets out and takes a class, and in the course of that class finds that they think they would prefer the VFG further away or closer in, having only a short section of rail bolted up means, potentially, a whole hell of a lot of tinkering during the lunch break. A guy with a quad-rail and a Tango Down VFG simply slides it fore or aft on the bottom rail.
But is there a trend? Yes there is. I think it is largely due to the perceived weight savings more than anything else. Well, that and people identifying that there is a trend and simply following the herd. They also tend to be significantly less expensive, which is another strong motivator for a lot of people.
Yeah, having a VTAC I know that it is best used with a minimalist set-up and making changes is more time and effort consuming than one would have with a quad rail. I do like the slim form factor, simplicity, light weight, and relatively lower cost, though. And so far it meets my fairly simple needs fully. That could change in time, however.
This is all just part of the appeal to the platform… so many possibilities and such amazing versatility. Firearms lego on steroids! :laugh:
The weight savings really has a lot of appeal… unless it prevents you from being able to do something you want to do. Obviously, there’s no perfect set-up and plenty of reasons for multiple AR owners to have different ARs for different applications.
5 years ago, there wasn’t as much access to carbine classes, so there were less opportunities to really train and push your gear.
If you don’t train, lots of things sound great in theory. Like a heavy middy barrel with full length rail
In practice, people that shoot a lot learn that lighter is better, so there gear mimics that realization. Also there is the reality that they won’t need an IR targeting system, or a heavy barrel. Even VFG’s have fallen out of favor. The end result is you need less rail too, so that goes as well
In the end is a very lean system with a light barrel, only enough rail to mount what you need, an optic and light.
Rather than just copying a SEAL’s build from some pic on the internet, people are building exactly what fits their needs, and shedding the excess.
I (as a newbie) have noticed a definite trend toward quad-rail alternatives. However, I see it more of a change in target markets as well as transition in product development than anything else.
From what I can tell, in past years it’s been about .gov/.mil contracts first and joe citizen has come after that. However, with the growing popularity of ar-15 platform rifles, companies are now catering to the civilians as well, and listening to their feedback in addition to those in the shit.
Joe citizen often has a completely different need than the .mil and even though the two often overlap and even innovate for one another (i.e. Magpul Dynamics), there are people that fall in the fringes and can finally be accommodated for. Super accurate match/hunting/varmint rigs are now available from any top manufacturer as well as LW profile barrels for those not interested in putting hundreds of rounds down-range of continuous fire or that just want to be able to have a fun/gingerly day at the range with the whole family.
Some of it also just comes down to looks and marketing; the “I gotta have what they have” mentality, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. If I had more money and could ‘justify’ it in my own mind, I would have a DD Lite 12 on my rifle in two seconds, those things are just sexy!
However, I think I’m going to be following the trend and going “Practical-Tactical” and giving myself a TRX Extreme for Christmas this year. All I want (not need) is a light free-float that I can attach a bipod to for bench shooting, but take off and ‘run ‘n gun’ in my backyard range with my .22 conversion kit for some good fun. Plus, they just look good and I’m not afraid to admit I sometimes buy things because I just think they look cool
I’ve always kept my gear and guns simple. I like them SHORT and LIGHT and uncluttered.
C8 handguards here on mine. A flashlite is all I add and a single picatinny mounted on the front sight works perfectly for me on my mid-length AR’s. The guns at work have railed handguards so the Surefire goes on the left rail as far forward as I can get it.
My quad rail is not cluttered, but I don’t mind having the 12 inches of rail space. I have rail covers that came w/ it and if I were to ever need to add something other than an AFG, and a light I know right away that I have the room for it. I also have my eotech just breathing over onto it over the YHM riser. It’s just how I roll though. YMMV
About two years ago, I became interested in the VLTOR CASV as I could put rails where I wanted them. While this is a quality rail system, the rail over the receiver caused me some issues with optics choices.
About a year ago, I switched out to the Troy TRX Extreme rail. This rail coupled with the VTAC version are my current favorites. Why? Because of their slender shape (can get my hands totally around it for more control). I also don’t have to put rails on it (unless I want too).
Will see more of these types of rails at Shot? Maybe.
I’m looking for my first AR. I will definintely be going with less.
Less stuff. I have a limited intended use, games mostly and very little plinking. I just won’t need much, BUIS and probably some day a red dot.
Less weight. I have shot enough guns, hunted, and played speed games to know I don’t want a lot of weight, even if I do like full-lug revolvers.
Less cost. I just don’t have any desire to spend a lot on a gun that I won’t use a ton and will not be used for life safety.
Lastly and still importantly, I like the looks of the Magpul MOE style stuff. I like the non-black rifles and I think the ergonomics of a grip as opposed to a rail is preferred.
I don’t know much about past AR offerings so I can’t comment on trends, but that’s what I’m looking for. Of course if these things weren’t commonly available I probably wouldn’t be looking for them either.
The S&W M&P15 MOE looks like it might fit rather well for me.
I haven’t found a use myself for any more than 1 rail section on a VTAC Extreme type handguard. The size also fits my hand better. The only gun that I ever had a quad rail handguard on is currently wearing an MOE handguard with 1 polymer rail section for a flashlight and is much lighter for it.
If you don’t have a use for the extra rail space it’s worth at least a shot going to a slimmer profile handguard. If you’re not sure whether or not you have the use for all the extra rail space, a quad rail is much better for experimenting with different positions and new gear, like rob_s was saying.
I think there is a trend to offer people even more options. There are still plenty of quadrailed AR’s out there, but nice to see other alternatives too.
I don’t think just because you have a railed fore end, you should feel obliged to use every inch of of it - that has never been the intent of them, IMO; again, its all about modularity and choice. The person who has a section of the rail covered up today might have something on it tomorrow…or vise versa. Rails also gives you flexibility in precisely positioning accessories where you want them…they don’t have to use it all.
I agree with Rob S. If nothing else, the quad rail gives you the ‘easy on, easy off’ convenience he gave examples of. I think it comes down to mission adaptability/intended use and how simple it is to experiment with varying accessory locations, and change them depending on current and forseeable need.
I dont think anyone prior to me posted about this but i also believe that rails became as popular as they were/are simply because ALOT of shooters wanted the benefit of a free float system.
The only way to do that without going for a national match style rifle was to slap a rail onto the gun.
The current movement away from railed handguards has alot to do with a few things.
The realization that we dont need 12 inches of rail on a fighting gun that will get nothing more than a red dot a white light and a forward sling mount.
There is a massive obsession with lighter rifles these days and the more metal you remove from the gun the lighter it generally ends up.
As more and more people grip further forward on the forearm and do everything in their power to gain more control over the muzzle of their weapon they tend to gravitate towards slimmer rails so that the hand can grip better.
I have a Midwest SS, after using it for a while now I can’t see myself going back to a quad rail on anything but a bench gun. It’s lighter, more comfortable than a quad with panels, and if I had the sudden urge to mount 7 lights at each 45 degree angle I still have that option.
The advantage of having all the rail space is the ability to put stuff where you want it. I don’t have much mounted on mine but but it is where I need it. I run a DD 12" Lite FSP and carry it everyday at work.
