Traveling VA-SC-VA with SBR: Help Needed

I’ll be traveling roundtrip from VA to SC for a class and would like to take my SBR which I found are allowed in South Carolina. However I have a question about Line 5 (reason for transporting firearm) from ATF 5320.20 application for interstate transport.

For my approved 5320.20 for West Virginia I could use “for all lawful purposes,” but that didn’t work for North Carolina.

For North Carolina I found I had to use “for research and development purposes.”

Does anyone know in order to get an application approved for South Carolina, do you have to use something other then “for all lawful purposes?” Thanks.

Going to SC you should be fine with “Organized Competition and Training Event”

Thanks, I appreciate the help.

If you’re not stopping in NC, you shouldn’t need one.

If you need to pull off to get gas, that’s one thing, but don’t go visit the Special Operations Museum if you don’t have it.

Apparently (now, the problem is that you are transiting through a hodgepodge of local and state laws here that are trumped by 1 federal law) you are allowed to transit through a non SBR state as a result of the FOPA of '86 (which happens to be the law that Ronnie signed which made MG made after 05/19/86 untransferable to regular folks). I’m pretty sure that you are allowed to take a direct route from your state to the final destination that the weapon is legal at through any non NFA, or non SBR state and stop for gas, meals, lodging, or any necessary vehicle repairs or maintenance as long as the weapon is secured and unloaded AND STAYS in a locked gun case in your trunk, or otherwise out of reach. I got this info from Ted Clutter at ATF.
If stopped, I would NOT volunteer that I was transporting a SBR (none of their friggen business), nor would I willingly submit to a search of my vehicle, or unlock my firearm case.

A 5320.20 does not guarantee safe passage.

NC is a restricted state. Private citizens are prohibited from owning ALL NFA weapons and devices without a qualifying exception.

See…
http://www.ncdoj.gov/About-DOJ/Law-Enforcement-Training-and-Standards/Criminal-Justice-Standards/CJ-Standards/Documents/NC-Firearms-Laws-2006-(2).aspx

See…Page 26, paragraph B. ALL NFA devices are considered “weapons of mass destruction” in NC. Research is an allowed exception to possession. One must be capable of documenting such while within the boundaries of NC. Assistant AG John Aldridge is very aggressive in prosecuting violations.

“Safe passage” by out-of-state residents possessing a restricted item is not guaranteed by statute.

One should also take note, Page 26 of the reference document makes it unlawful for “any person” to “transport” a weapon of mass destruction defined by the statute within the borders of NC without a qualifying and documented exception. However, page 26, paragraph B, exception #5 appears allow possession with an approved form. I would encourage a call to the NC AG Office for clarification prior to transiting NC.

FOPA ABSOLUTELY DOES guarantee “safe passage” IF the weapon is legal in the destination and it stays LOCKED UP while transiting any non NFA, or non SBR state. This is because it supercedes any fucked up NC State Law with regard to transiting,or simply passingthrough any particular State.
This is one of the reasons the FOPA was enacted to begin with. You need to check with the NFA branch before you give out bad advice to Folks.
One would have a problem invoking this part of the FOPA for Hawaii, because you would not be able to make an affirmative defense that you were only passing through the state on your to a different state.

Johnny…

Please read my post again.

I stated, “5320.20” does not guarantee “safe passage”. 5320.20 is only a document approved by NFA Branch for the relocation of an NFA device intrastate. The approval process evaluates the ‘lawfulness’ of possession at destination, not the in-transit portion of the journey. This form is nothing more or nothing less.

FOPA, as amended in 1986 is a pit full of snakes. It has been marginalized by the Federal District Court rulings, even state and municipal case law. Beach v. Kelly (for the 5 Boroughs of NYC) have successfully limited the scope of FOPA. To date, SCOTUS has not taken a case and offered an opinion to clarify municipal, state and federal district opinions on individual rights pertaining to “safe passage” under FOPA.

The NRA has even issued warnings to its members and others traveling with firearms through areas of the country where possession is vastly restricted by local/state law(s). Read the Special Advisory for NYC/NJ airports; “FOPA`s protections have been substantially narrowed by court decisions, and persons traveling with firearms may want to avoid New York and New Jersey or make arrangements to ship their firearms to their destination, rather than bringing them through these jurisdictions.” NYC/NJ Airports are not the only locations of concern when traveling with firearms. NC considers ALL NFA devices as “Weapons of Mass Destruction”. Possession of same within the borders of NC is restricted and NC law has been upheld in federal district court.

Like most most legal challenges to law, one must have standing. Thus, you have to be charged with a violation in one of these restrictive jurisdictions and then challenge the validity of the law. YOU must decide to roll the dice on your freedom and future right to “keep and bear arms”.

As I stated, it would behoove the traveler with firearms to write the State AG/DOJ requesting a written reply regarding protocols for travel (“safe passage”) through a jurisdiction.

ANY information posted on any public/private forum that could possibly contribute to your arrest and prosecution should be validated. A telephone call to an agency is good, a written letter, with reply is much better. However, still not a guarantee you will not be prosecuted if a violation is discovered.

Fortunately, HB 650, signed by the Governor, takes effect December 1, 2011. NC law will allow for the defense of life without retreating and some other important features not allowed under current law. Some jurists are of the opinion that the new law allows possession of certain NFA devices IF one has a current NC Concealed Handgun Permit (or one from a state with reciprocity) and an approved ATF form with CLEO approval.

From the NC NFA Defense Association (not attorneys, but, knowledgeable NC citizens who successfully lobbied for the new law):
“The desire to own NFA firearms is certainly understandable. They are the ultimate prize for firearms collectors and enthusiasts. However in our great state of North Carolina (NC) the items are becoming extremely difficult to obtain. One must remember that the more restrictive statute of law is the one by which we must abide, federal o r state makes no difference.”

Since the infamous AG opinion letter of 1999, the statutes under NC law have been pushed and evermore strictly enforced… It has become very difficult to obtain a CLEO signature for the purpose of procuring a NFA weapon in most NC counties, and in several localities it is virtually impossible."

On a side note…using a trust for possession of an NFA item in NC…
From the NC NFA Defense Association: “…there is NO provision for legal use of a “trust” to own NFA under NC State law. In this case the more Restrictive State statutes over rule Federal law. This is especially true where a “trust” is used specifically to circumvent the CLEO signature requirement. We strongly advise anyone seeking to own NFA items in this state to procure the signature of their resident CLEO. The only exception that we can see for the use of a “trust” is to hold NFA items for underage dependents following the death, or immediately preceding the death (terminal illness) of the current NFA owner, where as the items are properly held by current owner before establishing the trust. Even this is not specifically allowed under the statutes in NC. If you currently hold NFA items via a trust that is setup contrary to these reasons, or in a questionable fashion, it would be in your interest to talk to your CLEO about signing a Form 4 for your item and then transfer it from the trust to yourself and close the trust.”

Assistant AG John Aldridge has successfully prosecuted both residents and non-residents under current law for violations of the states law regarding “weapons of mass destruction” (which includes NFA items). To date, the cases he has won have not been reversed on appeal.

The problem is the wording in Title 18, U.S.C.
“Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof…” allows for more restrictive local and state law.

Thus, is there “trump’ing” of restrictive local/state law or “federal supremacy” on this issue? I have been told, NO by the 2A attorney I use for corporate matters. If there is a conflict resulting in federal supremacy, I would like for someone to cite such so I can pass it to legal counsel.

When calling BATF, I always ask the knowledgeable person to cite relevant law, regulation, rule or policy. NFA Branch representatives are extremely knowledgeable and always willing to help. I have always received correct, cited information. I get the strong sense these folks are there to help you stay ‘legal’ on NFA issues.

Finally, “safe passage” was becoming such an problem for LEOs traveling armed to or through restrictive jurisdictions, President Bush signed HR218 (Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act) into law in 2004. Note, supremacy of this law was declared in the act, “notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, he or she may carry a concealed firearm in any state or political subdivision thereof.” Yet, restrictive local and state laws pertaining to places where a LEO may or may not carry a concealed weapon are still in effect due to language in the Act.

Unfortunately, LEOs were still running into problems carrying hollow point ammunition, particularly in NJ. Thus, S1132 (LEOSA Improvement Act) was signed into law in 2010 by President Obama. S1132 permits “…ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act.”

Note, S1132 states LEO travel (“safe passage”) with machine guns, silencers and destructive devices is not permitted by the Act.

Munch, thanks for the info and link. I was aware of NC’s “quirky” regs as they apply to SBRs from a previous trip there. I’m a “researcher/developer” of GoPro HD video camera mounts for SBRs. Whenever I travel to or through NC with my SBR, I bring a few different “research” mounts to demo in case I’m questioned about the SBR.

ATF approved and returned my travel forms to SC in one week. Now if only they would move just as fast with my AAC suppressor on a pending Form 4.