Training with Rifle Plates

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@2theXtreme

Not to derail or anything but where did you pick up your Eclipse plates? I am looking for some.

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Got them from SKD. Leaving the current controversy surrounding BAE out of the equation, I can tell you that the plates I received were, in my opinion, very well made. My opinion only comes from doing a lot of online research prior to buying and looking at various different brands that I had access to for personal inspection. That being said, I’m no expert in rifle plate technology but I believe these plates will serve me well.

[2theXtreme]

Yeah. I freaking missed out on those. I was looking at picking some up but they were gone by the time I had the dough. If anybody else knows some place to find them PM me!

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[Voodoo_Man]

Hate to resurrect a thread from the dead, but that is what the search button is for right?.

I finally put my Banshee together, 10x12 plates and the soft armor that is offered from TAG for the Banshee.

No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn rifle to sit anywhere except the tip of my shoulder. I tried shortening the stock a bit and my nose touched the charging handle after a cheek weld, tried bringing it closer to the center of my peck and just cannot get the rifle to stay without sliding off.

I am running a Troy battle-ax stock and its all metal, this makes me believe it is the issue. When I put my SCAR on I get a fairly consistent cheek weld but still cannot get “as good” as I can without the armor on.

This is not my first time shooting or wearing armor and it has never been this difficult to get a solid position for the gun.

Suggestions?

[a0cake]

@Voodoo_Man

Hate to resurrect a thread from the dead, but that is what the search button is for right?.

I finally put my Banshee together, 10x12 plates and the soft armor that is offered from TAG for the Banshee.

No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn rifle to sit anywhere except the tip of my shoulder. I tried shortening the stock a bit and my nose touched the charging handle after a cheek weld, tried bringing it closer to the center of my peck and just cannot get the rifle to stay without sliding off.

I am running a Troy battle-ax stock and its all metal, this makes me believe it is the issue. When I put my SCAR on I get a fairly consistent cheek weld but still cannot get “as good” as I can without the armor on.

This is not my first time shooting or wearing armor and it has never been this difficult to get a solid position for the gun.

Suggestions?

Have someone take a picture from the front of how the plate carrier is sitting on your torso. The Banshee looks odd in that it flares toward the outside in the shoulder pocket area instead of cutting in to open up that pocket for the stock to sit. May be part of the problem.

[Voodoo_Man]

@a0cake

Have someone take a picture from the front of how the plate carrier is sitting on your torso. The Banshee looks odd in that it flares toward the outside in the shoulder pocket area instead of cutting in to open up that pocket for the stock to sit. May be part of the problem.

I had the same feeling, plus the plastic clips are almost right there too. I followed the other thread about proper wearing of armor, and I have plenty of space for the stock but it bounces off the PC.

[Voodoo_Man]

some pix (sorry for the face-out, opsec and all)

Notice how it rides and it is/feels like it is going to slip right off.

With AR:

With SCAR:

other strong:

I guess I need to get to the range and see how it feels for a training day or a few hours of shooting drills…

[Voodoo_Man]

No comments?

Its in the right place but it is very difficult to keep it there in my opinion…

[Magic_Salad0892]

@Surf

I created a separate post to explain my thoughts, but this is still along the lines of what F2S mentions above. While we may agree on points here, I don’t want to put any words into what he may be saying above. Since I get asked quite a bit about this topic in regards to commonality and / or consistency and that I may perform certain skills differently from what I may teach, I thought I would expand on how I feel about it. Now when I am teaching certain things I perform them in the manner that I am teaching, but I am often viewed doing things perhaps a bit differently outside of teaching. Of course I always clarify this with all my students from the onset and explain the reasoning. However much is left unsaid on forums so these are only my own thoughts on the topic.

I believe that consistency or commonality is often over emphasized, there I said it. However I will readily admit that when teaching newer or even intermediate shooters commonality or consistency plays a larger role in how I teach, or in other words the skill levels of the target audience plays a huge determining factor. I do find that in basic or intermediate level courses, consistency and commonality helps the overall progression of the class as a whole and we may provide individual instruction for those who exhibit high skill sets given the material trained and who may be experimenting or looking to come up with variations to increase their own individual performance. So as a shooters skill level increases and as they start to “find themselves” and develop their own “unique style”, commonality and consistency can play a lesser role. I will go as far as saying that commonality and / or consistency may even be holding a shooter back from being good to being great. I will also note that a shooter should be able to perform skills at a high level before they may start to experiment. I also find that as skill levels increase, shooters naturally start to plateau or start to get diminishing returns on their training investment. This is when you start seeing shooters experimenting with various methods or techniques in a search for those incremental improvements that may jump start them. It is at those times that I will encourage or foster this progression and start suggesting “non-standard” ways of looking at things to find solutions. This often upsets traditionalists who remain rigid on what may be considered standard TTP’s, but then again I am often viewed as being a bit “outside of the box” anyway.

Also as F2S mentions skill set plays a huge role. There are those who may want to mimic what I do, or what another shooter may be doing, when in reality they may be skipping steps in the valuable learning progression that I may have followed to arrive at where I or where they are at right now. Mimicking is good when done correctly, however there needs to be a method for the madness so to speak. As an example look at the tons of shooters who mimic a certain shooting style commonly viewed on training videos, but can’t hit what they are shooting at. They look fast and slick on the movements but they have no clue about making lead hit what they are shooting at. Is that “value added” training? Well that depends I guess. Also what works for me, may not work for the guy next to me. If skill levels, time and resources for training permit I very much feel a shooter can benefit greatly from having a varied “game” or a mixed “bag of tricks” so to speak. However a new shooter or even an intermediate shooter, or those who don’t have the time and / or resources on the range, commonality and consistency in base fundamentals is definitely a good thing.

This is possibly my favorite post on the ‘‘consistency’’ subject. I may refer to this post later (on this site, as I don’t frequent others anymore).

Thanks, for posting that.

[till44]

I am running a Troy battle-ax stock and its all metal, this makes me believe it is the issue.

This is my only complaint with the Troy stock, no grip. I’ve thought about running a few thin beads of E-6000 glue on the end to fix it but haven’t given it a try yet.

[Failure2Stop]

@Voodoo_Man

No comments?

Its in the right place but it is very difficult to keep it there in my opinion…

Can’t see your pics.

[MSteele]

I recently purchased the PIG PC and 10X12 plates in order to become comfortable using them for a training class in March, which armor is required for part of it. I immediately had difficulty shouldering the rifle and extending my arms out to get a proper grip. The PIG allows for some adjustment of the shoulders and I actually switched some hardware out. In the end the biggest difference was just going to the range and training with the PC. I actually removed the plates and just practiced that way. Later in the day I put the plates back and trained some more. After 3 range visits it has become a lot easier to shoulder the rifle and achieve proper grip on the rail. Normally I just drive the stock into my chest, with the PC I bring it up and then slam it in to the side of the plate in order to get it in to that space on my shoulder.
Training is the best way to work through the difficulties. I did try my buddies plates which were thinner and triple curved and it was a little easier. Another issue I am personally having is with the sling. I have always used the MS2 and now the MS3 but with a PC it doesn’t work to well. I ordered the Emdom universal strap that attaches to the PC and the BFG VCAS with sewn in QD’s .

[Esquire]

I am in the same boat as a few of you above, I have a PIG pc and 10x12 plates and no matter what I can’t get what I feel is a stable shooting position, my stock always ends up starting to slip off the curve of the plate while shooting and the PC doesn’t leave enough of a shoulder pocket open for me to seat the rifle’s stock. Does anyone have any direct advice or even pictures relating to the placement of the stock when shouldering a rifle wearing plates?

[Failure2Stop]

@Esquire

I am in the same boat as a few of you above, I have a PIG pc and 10x12 plates and no matter what I can’t get what I feel is a stable shooting position, my stock always ends up starting to slip off the curve of the plate while shooting and the PC doesn’t leave enough of a shoulder pocket open for me to seat the rifle’s stock. Does anyone have any direct advice or even pictures relating to the placement of the stock when shouldering a rifle wearing plates?

Don’t put the stock on the plate.
Put the stock between the edge of the plate and your shoulder.
Lock it in place with the ball of the shoulder, the firing hand’s rearward pressure, and firm cheek-weld.
You probably need to blade yourself more than you currently are, but without seeing a picture of what you are doing it is hard to know.

[Esquire]

That is the kind of response I was looking for, I had been concerned about degrading my ceramic plates over time by shooting with my rifle directly on them + I wasn’t very comfortable. I will try and get some pics up if I can but this seems like this may help me a lot, in the morning I am going to kit up and grab my rifle and see how that feels.

[Failure2Stop]

I don’t have any pics or videos of me shooting in armor, but if you look up Kyle Lamb or Larry Vickers, pay attention to their stance. It works very well with armor.
I think that our esteemed member Surf might have some good video on his youtube channel as well.

[Esquire]

@Failure2Stop

I don’t have any pics or videos of me shooting in armor, but if you look up Kyle Lamb or Larry Vickers, pay attention to their stance. It works very well with armor.
I think that our esteemed member Surf might have some good video on his youtube channel as well.

Thank you again, I will definitely look into those guys further for some more stance in armor info, do you think shooting with the rifle on the edge of my plates could possibly have degraded or compromised them (Level III stand alone ceramic plates)? I had only spent a brief part of 1 range trip doing just that but wonder if I should be concerned

[Failure2Stop]

@Esquire

Thank you again, I will definitely look into those guys further for some more stance in armor info, do you think shooting with the rifle on the edge of my plates could possibly have degraded or compromised them?

I would be very surprised if you caused them any damage, but you can get them xrayed if you are concerned.

[ffhounddog]

Do not toss gear on them in the trunk of your car. That is how mine cracked but I probably had smaller cracks from my ex wife throwing gear out my front door in one of her I hate the Army tantrums.

[Esquire]

Sorry to hear that about your gear! I was told from day 1 with plates to not toss them in the trunk when I head out to classes or range trips so I will definitely be heeding your advice.

[kenndapp]

@Ironman8

Another thing you can try is canting your rifle slightly along the shooters cut of your plate. I estimate that its only about a 10-15 degree cant so it won’t disturb your sight picture, yet it will fit in your shoulder pocket much easier. It’s how I have been shooting mine with plates and I like it…YMMV

i am glad someone else is doing this too. at first i felt like was “doing it wrong” even though it worked. to keep my stock off my plate (even though they are swimmer/operator cut) i do have to cant my riffle slightly as well as keep a slightly more bladed stance. thees two things have made all the difference for me when using plates. also, if you are into keeping physically fit…a few extra sets on shoulder day at the gym will give you a bit more area to work with when finding some real-estate for your but stock.