This is probably in-between training and general discussion. In past years I did anywhere from 3 to 5 classes. 2012 - none, partly because of training priorities, and partly because of other reasons. I am on a west side, and quite a few good classes happened in Cali. I actively pursued one, but nothing happened because the host couldn’t find 10 round mag loaners for P30, and I refuse to spend money on neutered mags at 50 bucks a pop.
Attending out of state class isn’t cheap, and pays decent money to local economy. Airport fees, car rental and gas, hotel, food, sometimes ammo. Somehow this got to me, feeding an economy of a locale that doesn’t support the cause, produces legislators who lead the charge against etc.
While this is mostly a rant, there is an implicit request to training outfits: if possible, set up your classes in friendly states. I understand it is very hard to get those classes going, you need a good host, a range, a chance on good enrollment, convenient travel logistics etc. Once a location is established, it is hard to change. Having said that, I personally swore off attending any more classes in restrictive states; I am curious if anybody else gave this issue any consideration.
If you are not from California, you can bring any kind of rifle and use any kind of magazine if you can show you’re in state for a competition or training.
Thank you for this, I was wondering the same thing. So I can effectively bring all my 30rd mags and my non bullet buttoned AR for classes IF and ONLY IF I am not a resident of CA? Will they allow me to fly into CA without any special permission for the class?
I took three classes in Cali. I believe you’re correct in regards to carbine classes, and bringing my regular AR and mags was what I did. However, nothing that I could find - in your link or elsewhere - is explicit about pistol mags, and in a pistol class I took everyone, including out of state instructor who’d done multiple classes there, were using 10 round mags.
Subdivisions (a), and (b), and (c) shall not apply to the possession and importation of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle into this state by a nonresident if all of the following conditions are met: [ul] li The person is attending or going directly to or coming directly from an organized competitive match or league competition that involves the use of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle.
[/li]> li The competition or match is conducted on the premises of one of the following: (A) A target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range. (B) A target range of a public or private club or organization that is organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
[/li]> li The match or competition is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by, a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
[/li]> li The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is transported in accordance with Section 12026.1 or 12026.2.
[/li]> li The person is 18 years of age or over and is not in a class of persons prohibited from possessing firearms by virtue of Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
[/li]> [/ul]
But does the average law enforcement officer know that PC? I highly doubt it. You might have to have the PC handy and it might also help to configure your rifle in a CA friendly style just for transportation. I am not a LEO but realistically I think you can have a wide range of responses from an LEO even with the proper paperwork. Personally my advice would be, be the person that doesn’t get asked questions and the person that doesn’t get pulled over.
As to the OP, from what I understand you basically said. “Trainers, stop going to California because they are not a gun friendly state and come to my state because I want training.”
First and foremost I want to rant just a bit, sorry. Way to not be the feeder and whine to be the receiver. Way to not be an enabler and try to be a disabler (of training in CA).
Second, the politics of the handful of senators which are the byproducts of two cities (LA and SF) do not reflect the entirety of the great state of CA. Outside those cities (and the minority within them), we the people feel ruled by an out of touch elite class but fight on. I have seen a TON of great trainers come to CA (most if not all of the m4Carbine trainers), one because of the hosts but secondly because the customer base is huge. The shooting hobby is quite big and large enough where I have seen the local training school business explode. Training and competition are great in many ways, but one of them is making people feel comfortable with firearms at the grassroots level. It helps gain the favor for the 2nd Amd one happy, well trained, other strong hand thinking feeder at a time.
If one looks at penal code quote, no word on pistols.
G_M, that feeder/enabler stuff, it doesn’t apply here. I’ve done 12 hour drives into CA more than once, supporting a number of classes there. I have neither leverage nor desire to deprive CA gun owners from training, and there are some I communicate with to this day.
A sole point of my post is a single customer’s feedback to training outfits. I am not telling them to fold CA operations; it doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive. All there is to it is that I, just one dude, am done taking classes in gun-unfriendly states. My last out if state class was in VA, my next one will be in FL. Hell lot further away from UT than CA, but sits much better with my principles. Hope you’re not offended.
Being from Oregon, this is good news. I didn’t know you could bring in a proper rifle and mags to CA. But looking at the exact wording, it says “organized competitive match or league competition”. It doesn’t say training. Has this every been challenged or clarified?
This would open a fair amount of training opportunities for me if I’m legal to bring my gear. I’ve got several friends in SoCal I could stay with to help with the costs.
Born and raised in CA; not happy with the way things go here, at all, but I vote and make an effort where I can. I am about as conservative as one can be. Let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water, meaning, California is still part of the USA and there are many folks here that do not get represented as the granola and commie love crowd dominate the politics and far from just having a different view, I witness corruption, treason and there are a sizable number of politicians in power here that overtly give Mexico precedence over this great state. It is sad; however, the are many states that are not far behind and a couple (Illinois, Mass) that are worse.
Instead of the Cali hate, we should be working, together as one, to change things as we can. By simply saying you won’t participate with CA is to play into the hands of those you disagree. Divide and conquer and incrementalism. Think about it.
I will make the effort to get training, participate and support in the manner I am able those who would wish to come here to provide the training. Yes the laws suck-- but I’ll train within the law and benefit from it. I hope the trainers that make it here do well and find it was worth their effort.
They do well and will continue to go there simply due to market forces, as long as they keep filling up their classes.
The contrary situation is where I am, one of the most gun-friendly states and very low class enrollments.
Reading your post, I get a sense you feel I have a specific beef with CA. I don’t, I simply used it as a personal example. I equally don’t want to go and train in IL, MA, NJ, NY etc. The fact that rural IL is way different from Chicago, or that there are tons of shooters in CA hasn’t made much practical difference in either state, has it? I feel there is something very wrong about coming down to a place with 2 ARs, boatload of mags and gear and not be able to ccw my pistol, all while pumping in high 3 - low 4 digit sum into a local economy in a span of 3 days. And still be edgy about how that theoretical penal code would play out in real life.
Again, this isn’t a request that training groups throw all those locales under the bus, that is certainly not my intent. As I said, it is a simple customer feedback on what I, one recovered training junkie, look at when I choose training venues.
If I was misunderstood or came across poorly, I apologize. No, I didn’t sense you had a beef with the state, only with it’s stupid laws. I have the same beef.
You are certainly entitled to do what you wish with your money, time and etc, I won’t fault you for that. Trainers have the same right as well and I can’t fault them if they don’t wish to come here. However, that ends up just giving the anti-gun people what they want. I am sick of that behavior.
My point I guess is that State by State, a little at a time, a few small restrictions at a time, we shooters are getting squeezed. It’s not like we can all suddenly move to Arizona to enjoy gun rights and say piss on the rest of them. I am only saying we need to make a stand everywhere we can and hold the line and not give any more ground to the “anti’s”. If we abandon one state, their work is done there and they move to the next.
Those folks that think the next anti-gun bill or AWB wont pass the House are delusional. just last night a Republican congressman who is pro-gun said on the news that a new gun bill of some sort “has a good chance of passing”.
The CA penal code references attending an “organized competitive match or league competition.” It does not mention a training course. I would look into this further before taking my firearms and mags to CA. (Ok, I wouldn’t go to CA for a training class.)
Subdivisions (a), and (b), and (c) shall not apply to the possession and importation of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle into this state by a nonresident if all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The person is attending or going directly to or coming directly from an organized competitive match or league competition that involves the use of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle.
(2) The competition or match is conducted on the premises of one of the following: (A) A target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range. (B) A target range of a public or private club or organization that is organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(3) The match or competition is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by, a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(4) The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is transported in accordance with Section 12026.1 or 12026.2.
(5) The person is 18 years of age or over and is not in a class of persons prohibited from possessing firearms by virtue of Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
You think YOU are FRUSTRATED? How do you think WE feel? Every time I take another class or bring a friend or relative into a class in CA, its my way of giving the one finger salute to the lefties that run our state. Rant away about how bad it is, but don’t forget that around 45% of the people here vote pro-gun. Nearly the whole state is red with two little pockets of blue that somehow control everything.
Ooh. You got me there. We didn’t do as well this time. Well in some of the PAST elections it was closer to 50/50. Anyhow, looking at your link it seems that around half the counties voted red. Either way, there are millions of Republican voters here that should not be thrown under the bus, because of the rest of the jackasses.
Also, let’s both just keep giving the finger to anyone who opposes the Constitution from anywhere on the map.