Not my rifle.
Not my groups.
Really not my problem.
Thank you all for your input, let’s let this one die.
Thank you for this post.
It was truly helpful.
I told my brother to not worry about it and keep shooting.
I also told him he needs to shoot 5 round groups minimum.
10 round groups are preferred.
Over the last 20+ years, I have spent the time to break-in barrels in the following calibers: 22LR, 223, 243, 6mm Rem, 30-06, and 308.
Recently I had my first custom barrel installed, a Bartlein stainless 1:8 twist in 6.5x47 Lapua. I asked the gunsmith what I should do for break-in and he said to shoot until accuracy started to fall off before cleaning. At about 50 rounds the gun started to shoot awesome, under 1/2" at 100 yards and am nearing 100 rounds without cleaning the gun.
Every gun/caliber/barrel is a little different but my thoughts on break-in have definitely changed.
I’m one of those who think barrel break in is a myth in that there is some specific process you need to follow in order to achieve max accuracy from your tube.
HOWEVER, I have owned six different precision rifles now and I will say that the groups become “consistent” after the first 25-50 rounds. Up front, this occurrence indicates that something is happening with the mechanics of the rifle. But, I don’t believe a prescribed process needs to be followed to get to the same point you would by just normal trigger pulling and barrel cleaning.
I have a new bolt gun coming in next week (Rem 700 AAC-SD 16.5" 308 cal) and I plan on documenting the groups and how they change over time. I am going to start by firing it straight out of the box, and then tracking the accuracy progression as I install aftermarket parts. If I determine an actual round count where groups became consistent (if there is one), I’ll throw it up in this thread as a point of reference.
O…he was in the infantry, thats your problem (I Kid, 11’s for life)
Hart says break-in is not needed:
http://hartbarrels.com/faq.php
“What do you recommend for barrel break-in?”
“We do not believe that a break in procedure is required with our barrels. If you follow our normal cleaning procedure, outlined in this brochure, you should not have any problems with your new rifle. You always want to clean your rifle as often as your course of fire will allow. If you have time to shoot one and clean, that would be fine, but we personally do not feel it is necessary. Please be sure to only use the cleaning solvents listed in our cleaning instructions.”
Shilen also says break-ins are not needed but they do provide one:
http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10
“How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?”
“Break-in procedures are as diverse as cleaning techniques. Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don’t think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.
Here is our standard recommendation: Clean after each shot for the first 5 shots. The remainder of the break-in is to clean every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. During this time, don’t just shoot bullets down the barrel during this 50 shot procedure. This is a great time to begin load development. Zero the scope over the first 5 shots, and start shooting for accuracy with 5-shot groups for the next 50 shots. Same thing applies to fire forming cases for improved or wildcat cartridges. Just firing rounds down a barrel to form brass without any regard to their accuracy is a mistake. It is a waste of time and barrel life.”
I think this is just initial copper fouling of the barrel.
Just shoot the damn thing. I have a B4 ASI, and I spent a year working with soldiers who use their first names who have attended similar schools. The consensus among people whose round impacts affect their mortality is the same- shoot the ****er, it’s more accurate than you.
Your input would have been greatly appreciated had you actually read the thread.
Let me reiterate for the members out there who are too lazy to read…
It is not my rifle.
I told the owner to shoot it and clean it when accuracy falls off.
I asked near the beginning of the thread for quantifiable example and to be spared the regurgitated hyperbole.
Hey, High-Speed. Just got back here to read this thread and saw this articulate reply. Let me go ahead and quote you, since I am too lazy to read…
[b]"Problem is, he did not break the barrel in.
I’m not even sure if he cleaned it before he shot it.
He’s the hard headed infantry veteran, knows lots about the infantry’s messed up way of doing things.
Claims to know why its important for a proper break in for a precision rifle.
Don’t ask me why he didn’t do it correctly.
Can this barrel still be broken in correctly?
Is the throat going to polish and wear correctly or did he just kill the serviceable life of this barrel?"[/b]
You referred to it as a problem, probably due to your extensive DOPE books you have compiled on various weapons systems, on various continents, at various elevations, from the very beginning of the service life of the barrels… No?
Throat polishing? That’s right up there with height over bore ratio in a semi-automatic handgun argument.
And my “regurgitated hyperbole” came from my time as a Scout/Sniper in the Army and the year I spent on a combat outpost in Iraq with a rather well known ODA, who had 4 members who had graduated SOTIC, you know, that thing you read about or watched on TV. Thanks for belittling me from a keyboard on the internet though dude, you win.
Edit: I’ve got more than enough frequent flier miles to fly you down here to teach me how to shoot, just tell me when and I’ll get you a ticket.
Your contribution to this thread is noted.
Note: No one belittled you.
I’d also like to add that when a highly reputable barrel maker such as Kreiger suggests to me a break in procedure via email, and some unknown on some Internet forum tells me basically that Kreiger is full of shit…
Well, you see the issue here?
no… google is your friend…
The McMillian article was posted already.
It raised more questions for me and it came across as bashing other barrel makers.
While not exactly apples to apples, but imagine if someone were to assert that the only reason guys like Grant advocates training is to wear your barrels out so you have to buy a new upper.
Ridiculous, I know.
Another notion brought up in the SH’s thread, (good read BTW, thank you), was that the patch was the item that was polishing any burrs left near the throat.
The projectile and powder do a good job at that.
The patch is obviously to clean out the fouling.
A couple of questions though.
As one poster above had mentioned, accuracy peaks after X amount of rounds.
One of the Mods here mentioned shooting a BCM 410 barrel to this peak and then having it melonited.
What exactly is happening here?
Also, what is going on in the barrel during the break in SOME manufacturers recommend that the copper fouling disappears?
This would suggest to me that once the fouling goes away, the throat has been smoothed out.
basic logic…
no good barrel needs to be “broken in”… the “barrel” should be lapped… their for nothing to break in…
so that what are you “breaking in”?
the only part that would be “rough”… the throat that would have tooling marks and burs…
your 1st 50ish should remove those, at that point, your barrel should be at its “peak”, but there would be zero benefit to cleaning that during the break in.
no if you dont have a match grade lapped bore, i would sugest you use this
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=lapping+bullets
I didn’t break in my BCM 410 barrel specifically because it is hand lapped.
Is the Tikka barrel?
Either way, I told my brother not to worry about break in.
I will be informing him about moly bullets though.
He seems to think he needs them.
If it will possibly damage the throat and void the warranty.
If u want the effect of moly with out the problems, use HBN…
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Do not strip copper, just the carbon buildup. The copper fouling will re-appear eventually anyway after a varying number of shots, dependent on the barrel. As the copper fouling appears, your POI will start to shift, until that barrel has achieved a homeostasis of copper fouling. Each time you strip the copper, you start the process all over again. Copper doesn’t ruin a barrel. Clean the carbon and powder, don’t strip the copper, and shoot it.
readers digest version:
break in is not a big deal, but it does have an affect.
The post by Gale McMillan is a joke. He says nobody ever showed him what break-in was supposed to do. Krieger and numerous others explain it in detail. But McMillan has been deceased many years and cannot respond. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of internet denizens who never met a conspiracy theory they didn’t like, who want to take the discussion back to the beginning, instead of moving it forward. So we will remain in this loop until these people manage to educate themselves or find a new hobby.
Nobody I know has a plausible theory for break-in improving accuracy (at least at short range). It does however affect how your bore copper fouls, which in turn can affect pressure and velocity over time. Anybody shooting groups at 100 and claiming “look what i did and I never broke my barrel in, so it must be a myth” is completely missing the point. If all they do is shoot groups, and especially at short range, then good for them if they save themselves an extra 10 minutes of cleaning once.
Break-in only takes a few rounds, not 100s (for most decent barrels).
It doesn’t matter how well your bore was lapped. The barrel mfg cannot lap the throat.
The goal is to prevent copper buildup, since copper adheres to copper.
Copper isn’t primarily deposited in the bore through friction. It comes off the bullet in the throat and is deposited in the bore as the gasses cool.
Barrels are unique. Don’t stop thinking after a sample size of one.
If you plan to clean your barrel every 10-20 rounds or after every string, as some recommend, then break-in will have minimal effect as copper won’t really build up.
If you plan to never clean your barrel, break-in is a little more important. Personally, I usually go at least 1000, usually 1500 rounds before cleaning and I find break in helps quite a bit. When I eventually clean, it is to remove copper and it is not because of the tool marks, but because erosion (that dry lakebed stuff) is similarly causing copper fouling. I wind up cleaning regularly near the end of a barrel’s life.
If you want to test this yourself, you can do so simply by cleaning a new barrel with a copper solvent after each round and watching the color of the patches that come out. Ask yourself, “Why do barrels stop copper fouling after a few rounds?”
IMO, you can break in, and have a barrel that doesn’t copper foul, or you can not break-in, in which case you will be trying to achieve the homeostasis mentioned above. You can work with homeostasis, but not having any copper fouling at all is obviously better. I much prefer consistent velocities.
If anyone has better info or can correct the above statements, please share.
While I am sure that there might be an initial difference in the amount of copper adhering to the barrel after whatever break in you perform, my personal experience has been that copper will still collect. The idea that after a break in from whatever manufacturer will lead to a barrel that doesn’t strip copper from the jacket as it travels is a stretch at best. If you’re doing bench rest or some other asinine course of fire, this would would warranted… Maybe… If you are attending a precision rifle course or any other tactical or real world class, you will almost unanimously be advised to not detail strip either the weapon or copper strip the barrel due to the poi shift that will occur on the following day. Break a barrel in, however you want, and fire 40 rounds without cleaning, and tell me what happened to your poi.
I would also recommend 5 round groups at maximum. At 10 rounds you are susceptible to shooter influenced inconsistencies.