Thoughts on going back to a 1911 Platform - STI Staccato C

General Firearms Handguns - 1911
1

About a year and half ago I left my traditional police officer position and took a investigator position with a new agency. I mainly work in an office and occasionally help out on low risk search warrants. I originally carried a Glock 19 and it eventually dawned on me that I no longer “have” to carry a gun with a slide that cuts my hand when I shoot it (even with a grip force adapter).

I currently carry an HK VP9SK and it fits most of my needs. I can carry a ten round mag off duty, 13 round mag for plain clothes and a 15 round mag when I do help out on a warrant. I usually carry inside the waistband and I have been growing more uneasy holstering a striker fired pistol when I have my vest on. I do fear that my shirt or jacket might slide into the trigger guard. The VP9SK has had a few failure to feeds, but otherwise has run fairly well. I have also picked up a few factory 20 round magazines that function well in the gun.

I am now tempted to carry a 1911. I have carried one off duty and this would be the first time I would carry one as a “duty” gun. I really like the STI Staccato C. I thank I am comfortable with the 8+1 capacity and could always carry two or three Wilson ten round mags on my vest. I also have duty rifle that I can deploy on search warrants as well. The rubber grip looks comfortable and would hopefully not tear up my shirts. I like the idea of a manual safety and being able to hold the hammer with my thumb when I re-holster. My wife also likes shooting 1911’s and was pretty mad at me when I sold one a few years back.

Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

2

The FIRST requirement of a handgun is that it go “BANG”- everytime. I would never carry a gun that “has a few failures to feed”. (Does your vehicle start everytime you turn the key/press starter?)
I would troubleshoot and correct the feed issues with the HK or quit carrying it.

STI makes a good gun, but like all guns that will be carried- it should be “proven” on the range.

I have their “Staccato P”, which is the hi-cap version of the “C”.
It has run flawless but had two issues; the front sight height was too tall for my carry ammo (it shot 4" low @ 20 yds), the barrel (hood) fit sucked and I’d have occasional fliers.
After ordering/installing a correct height FS and addressing the barrel hood issue the gun is good to carry.

It is not necessary to “hold hammer with thumb when you re-holster” with a 1911.
The thumb safety and grip safety, if properly fit and functional, completely prevent gun from firing.

The 1911 is much more a “gun guys” gun than the wealth of striker guns available.
One reason being parts are not reliably “drop in”- like modern CNC’d striker guns.
That said, once properly set up a 1911 or derivative is certainly as reliable as any handgun.

3

Thanks for your thoughts!! I do appreciate it. I think I have the failure to feeds linked to one of my 15 round mags. A little more testing and if it is the magazine I will send it back to HK.

I think I am going to make the switch. I’m looking forward to the dryfire/live fire practice to get used to the normal mag release and manual safety.

4

A tip- If I have a failure to feed at the range and can’t diagnose the issue to ammo/bad reload/etc., I insert a rd. backwards in that magazine and throw in the range bag for further scrutiny at home.
Magazines should be numbered as well.

5

I carried a Nighthawk Custom for my last 9 years as a LEO, with 230 Grn Federal HST. I also currently still carry it, transporting money between banks. Other than replacing recoil spring and mag springs, its been 100% for thousands of rounds. Although its low capacity, I still like ol slab sides, and with 4 extra mags I dont feel underarmed. Just make sure you get some proper training, the manual safety has to be used properly. Wrong thumb position can bump it on under recoil.

6

The 1911 takes a bit more dedication to become proficient/comfortable with than striker guns with “trigger safeties”.
Guess it’s just a matter of if that additional dedication/time/effort is worth it to the individual considering carrying one.

7

This is a pretty good summation in my opinion. The 1911 can and does still serve with distinction in LE, but the folks I know that still go 10-8 with them, as well as the retired dudes that carry them tend to be more “in tune” with what it takes to get there as well as stay there. My personal 1911’s run every bit as good as my Glock’s and M&P’s, but I would be lying if I said it does not take a bit more effort on my part to get there.

Best of luck with your choice. The Staccato seems to be shaking out to be a nice little blaster.

8

1911/ 2011’s are great. The sober question to ask is “can I remember to take that safety off under stress”? I know there are others who haven’t had that problem but it is a concern we need to strongly consider. Keep us posted.

jpgm

9

I love the 1911s I wonder about the safety as well and I would in a situation rely on the grip safety only… Lots of training is needed. The muscle memory thing doesn’t work for me.

10

We has a deputy that carried a 1911 and he looked bad to the bone with in holstered. He shot in the gun club I used belong to and he could really shoot great

11

Another (minor perhaps) consideration re. the 1911 as carry gun-

I have yet to see a person that is a non “1911 guy”, that was able to fire one on command. I am talking of replicating a bad guy gun grab.
A couple were able to fumble f&$k around and FIND the thumb safety.
The point being; if a non authorized person somehow gains control of your weapon (1911), you have a good chance of not getting shot with it.
The same cannot be said of a Glock/CZ P10, etc.

12

Thank you all for the great info!

13

While you and I (and probably everyone else) know that it isn’t about looks, nothing looks better, to me anyway, than a matte stainless 1911 in a basket weave leather duty rig. It just oozes “professional” and “pride”.

I don’t feel there is a damn thing wrong with that.

Like the Deputy you mentioned, the ones I know that are serious about the 1911, well, I would wager a bet they ain’t losing any gun fights solely based on their choice of duty gear.

But, with all that being said, it is crucial IMHO to look at this particular topic from multiple angles.

To the OP,

Not sure if your thought train is the same as mine, but, I have always viewed duty guns in the plural sense. That can get a little spendy compared modern plastic. Just a thought.

14

You have a VP9? And you want to go back to 1911? I ditched 1911 for carry purposes and got Smith M&P9. Close competition was the VP9. I’d take either over 1911. When the Jackboyz show up, you can run a 1911 to slide lock mighty quick in the big city!

15

Have you thought about a double stack 1911 ?

16

I don’t like the STI Staccato C idea. While I’ve got 1911 experience, I’ve got zero experience with STI, which means zero confidence in the make & model. Post #2 gives me even less confidence.

Next, do read the old 10-8 Performance article on choosing a 1911 for duty use:
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html

10-8 recommends having two 1911 guns available for duty-use as one can easily be down for some extended repair/service, especially without having a dedicated 'smith or 1911 armorer available at a moment’s notice. This need for repair/service becomes greater if the 1911 gun(s) are being shot a lot in practice (I’m talking perhaps 25K to 50K round/year, btw). The things which break generally don’t merely get plugged in, but get fitted along with test firing (extractors, thumb-safeties, plunger tubes, loose/broken sights).

I understand some guns, perhaps the HK VP9SK is one, may work 100% with a 10-round mag; but be less than 100% with the 15 round mags. I’d rather you go with the larger VP9 for warrant (which can easily turn into high-risk-entry work) or just stay with the VP9SK’s 10-round mags which has more capacity than the STI Staccato anyway.

I don’t quite understand the slide-biting of the Glock 19 series, which can be outfitted with a Grip Force Adapter or the Gen4/5 beavertail backstraps, but if the slide can still cut your hand, by all means, go with something else, which is what you’re doing and what you’ve done.

I do like how you’re staying with 9mm and have a rifle.

For work, I’ve been a Glock-guy for the most part of my career, with other agencies around me choosing HK and S&W, if those agencies didn’t also choose Glock. The agencies using the older SIG P229/P226 guns seem to be phasing out or will be soon. I haven’t been exposed to the latest SIG P320/M17/M18 guns to any real extent.

Note. I generally don’t recommend a 1911 to anyone. If a person really wants one, then I’d recommend buying one from a brand which has a reputation for having the least amount of trouble. If there is trouble, the brand should have excellent customer service. Even so, this customer service can take some time, possibly weeks to months. I’m thinking Wilson-Combat, but this just becomes cost-prohibitive with many of their guns starting at the $3K range (and you might want two). Springfield-Armory may be a “go to” still for a 1911, although its management structure has changed over the years and I’m unfamiliar with its current 1911 customer service capabilities.

17

Funny timing on the question. On Sunday I put away the Glock 19s I have been shooting and competing with and went back to a Colt Gunsite CCO in 45 for CCW and a STI single stack 9mm Legacy model for competition. Both had been great guns, I have 2 of the CCOs, one left dirty for practice and the other clean for carry.
Both guns have run and run with Zero issues.
I used to squad with Hilton from 10-8 and he wrote that a 9mm 1911 cannot be made to be reliable. I have the utmost respect for Hilton and decided to try to get my STI to work. It never was dependable loading the 1st round with HPs. Spoke to Tripp and STI and they both said to have the mags tuned to feed right. Never followed up. Just a FYI, STI makes great guns and was the name for 9mm 1911s in the competition world before the bigger names jumped in. I would buy their 9 1911s anytime.
I love the look of your STI choice, but would also talk to STI service, who are always cool, about dependability with your chosen ammo.
jon
"

18

The 10-8 article is good, a little dated but everything holds true. Interesting to note is their recommendation for the Springfield Professional as you can now get that handgun in 9mm.
Things to consider:
What is the expected round count of this pistol? Will it be fired often (weekly? daily?)
Are you willing to have two in the case it needs repairs? Or are you confident enough to go back to another model of handgun while your 19/2011 is being repaired?
If your expected round count is low, this may not be that big of an issue.
Are you going to be keeping a round count and replacing springs at set intervals?
Are you willing to frequently replace/tune magazines if you go double stack? Is magazine compatibility a non-issue?
Do you have a mandated or preferred ammunition? Your agency’s ammunition may not agree with your pistol.

19

If one wants a reliable 9mm 1911 then one might consider a .38 Super Auto. Same OAL as the .45 Auto which works best in the 1911 action. Fewer ammo options but mine’s been nothing short of awesome in the reliability dept. My lessons on reliability are to not stray to far from the original design, mainly springs but some add on parts as well. Use quality ammo with enough power to cycle the action with authority.
Other SAO 9mm’s to consider; BHP, CZ 75 SAO, SIG P226, 229 SAO. I’ve had all three, still have the CZ and I’d still have the SIG but desperate times… Desperate actions…

20

I kinda grew up on 1911’s, which means when I started really shooting I bought a TRP, and I pop that safety without even knowing it. Its very natural but I guess if you found yourself holstering without safety on, mucho training is in order. I do appreciate muscle memory because in a competition I have done a reload before my mag runs out and yes, I still ripped the slide.

That being said, if you want to rock a 1911, go for it. I like the Springfield armory variety or maybe the MC operator as the cheapest I would consider. Not familiar with STI, but hear they make nice guns. If you can step into the NH or WC or SA Pro gun then go for it. Best of luck.

One last consideration, Sig makes a Legion SOA 9mm in 226 and 229 sizes. It is as close as you can get to a double stack 9mm 1911, with supreme reliability and requires no upgrades. And its relatively cheap at around $1,200. But if you want a true 1911, it is not and I can appreciate that desire.

PB