anybody have any experience or insights with these specific bullet tips???
If you’re going to use a 5.56mm rifle for home defense you’ll probably be best served by a 55gr HP or soft point vs. a varmint bullet.
Varmint bullet that offers limited penetration and enhanced fragmentation.
See also: Hornady VMAX and Sierra Blitzking, both loaded in defensive loads as well.
All are exceptionally accurate in my experience.
i’ve used these in 30-06 silver ballistic tip and the results were outstanding for deer,and was just curious if anybody has tinkered around with them in 5.56 cal and what the end results were
How many 55 grain softpoints aren’t constructed for varmint applications? Speer, Hornady, Sierra, they’re all very lightly constructed. Unless you are talking a bonded bullet, but those are few. HPs are also lightly constructed, their jackets are really thin.
FWIW, I believe Hornady TAP are loaded with VMax bullets.
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It’s for varmints with body armor ! aka ‘tactical’ varmints 
I ‘carry’ 77gr MK262 Mod 1 in my ‘carry’ carbines. i.e. non-varmint bullets.
I use/like them ( 55gr nosler ballistic tips) for my in the city home defense gun for two reasons.
They feed flawlessly
They don’t over penatrate, if they exit the target there will be a mess. However if you miss the target they will almost alway fragment enough not to penetrate much more than 1 wall.
My Colt (1-7twist) on my boat (ie “Boat Gun”) sports the Barnes 70gr TSX. It is supurb on the penetration with a super wound channel. Inside 35 yards they will completely exit a average Black Bear and I haven’t recovered one from caribou which were shot at 120 yards.
I would be very hesitent to use a bullet that does not penetrate at lest 12" of bare gelatin. The targetry used on square ranges tends to make people believe that lethal threats will stand squared off to you, exposing their entire torso without anything in front of them.
To have justification to shoot someone, they must be a lethal threat. This will usually mean have some sort of weapon, which will most likely be pointed at/or swinging at you.
In most shootings between armed people, most shots land near the weapon due to the human propensity to focus on the weapon during a violent encounter. So, the bullets need to be able to travel through outstretched arms and such and still penetrate enough to puncture/destroy vital organs.
What if the person you need to shoot is under partial cover? Does the bullet have enough penetration ability to make it through the cover and end the fight? Though I question to valitity of the statement by the poster that believes that his ballistic-tipped bullets will be stopped in one wall, I would definately not want to rely on a bullet that would allow an adversary effective cover from behind a door frame.
The 77/75 gr cannellured bullets perform just as well as the lightweight bullets at close range, and outperform them as velocity drops. The only purpose for varmint bullets is for. . . wait for it. . . shooting varmints.
There is nothing wrong with your theory, as it is well known, and I do practice such in environments deserving of such.
The original poster wanted some thoughts on the Ballistic tip with home defense in mind and I gave him mine. Since you question the validity of my statements I must assume you have never tested the 40 or 55gr Ballistic tip your self. The test is simple. Shoot two pieces of ½ in sheet rock 4” apart and tell me how much energy in the fragments is left to penetrate flesh. Then try it through a two by four & two peaces of sheet rock.
If you ever seen what a ballistic tip does to a coyote or wolf you would rethink your hitting someone in the arm or hand or elbow……what ever you want to fantasize.
If I have to punch someone and that person does not fall…I simply punch again…….
I DO NOT SHOOT WHAT I CAN’T SEE no matter what I think I’m hitting by penetration of cover. I only shoot at what I can see……if the scumbag offers me half a forehead that is what I’ll take. I would rather be shot myself then tohit an unintended living target by shooting though cover…
I know it is probably really hard for some of you to think that many of us do not live in a war zone……
I live in a “HOME” where my children have free reign, they come and go as they please as do my grandchildren. My good neighbors and friends live close by. When the bump goes in the night it is the AR with ballistic tips which is my “to go” gun……I will never be sorry for shooting something I can’t see or by killing an unintended target due solid chunks of projectiles bouncing around flying aimlessly.
I know a person is not a coyote but…
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1932647
Ballistic tip .223 can be NASTY! if they aren’t behind cover. Any kind of serious cover and you are SOL though.
556-
I just spent too long writing a response that I think may be taken as insultory, (as I do not know you, and you do not know me) so I will simply agree to the fact that what some people need, others do not understand.
LaMas tried this concept. Anyone interested can reserch them. Long story short; didn’t work out.
I am interested in the results of your tests, as I have not conducted those tests with those rounds. If you have pictures and data of the gel-shots and penetration/fragmentation in drywall, I would like to see it. I think it is very much inline with the thread’s question and may make for informed choices in defensive ammunition.
I am not advocating the use of these bullets, although some of my buddies from my county’s SD was prep’d to go to New Orleans after Katrina and the 60 grain ballistic Hornady TAP ammo was what they were given.
One the 60 grain BT TAP. First, I know that a person is totally different, but I have shot about 6 deer with these bullets. Half were neck shots, the other chest shots. About 2-3 inches inside the wound to about 8 inches turns to jello. All tissue is nothing but a mush. Only few small particles actually penetrated out or the neck, and none out of the chest. On a lightly clothed, small frame individual; they may be fine. A big guy, forget it. He’ll have a nasty wound, and probably die from it, but it ain’t going through. They might work good on the US/Mexican border in August, but up north, in the cold, with a 300 lb linebacker, no way.
Like I said, I understand your comments fully, and they are valid. I also accept them to be correct in many circumstances required of the AR platform.
With that said, it does not discount the ballistic tip as a defensive round inside and around one’s home in our society as it is today.
These projectiles out of a 16” (what most civilians use) are a better one shot “FIGHT STOPPER” than most handguns we use for self-defense with less penetration.
Just recently we had one of our warriors return from Iraq. He AD’d his 45 acp in his hotel room, the 230 grain slug penetrated 6 walls and this was after going thought his arm and getting deflected off the bone. No worries, it turns out he will get back full use of his arm and no one was hit by the runaway slug.
However I would have to say; if his arm was hit by the projectiles under discussion, I would bet a month’s wage that his arm usage would suck to say the least. Plus the slug fragments would have been contained within the room.
Look, I’m not looking for a fight or argument. Nor am I going to perform a test just for pictures etc…I perform such un-scientific tests just to satisfy my own curiosity… Not all of us have need to shoot though car doors, glass, walls or one shot put downs at 200 plus yards…… I just need a step up on the crack heads and tweeker wanna be gang bangers who may attempt to threaten my family within/around my home.
That’s where my AR with ballistic tips has an advantage over my 1911, regardless of type of normal clothing, size, or drug use of target.
I guess if we had a 6’.5" 300lb volunteer to dress up as we do up here in the winter. We could have him start at 21 ft with a rambo knife. I’ll start with with my AR at low ready and won’t fire till he charges me…hmmmmm…Would that be a scientific test?
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Not quite sure of what side of the fence you are on here. I have read the offered reference, and the T223E (Boat Tail Hollow Point) performs how I advocate (despite the gree-dye marketing temp cavity profile) above. The T223F (Ballistic Tip) shows 8.5" of penetration after wallboard, supporting the concept that they are not rendered harmless after passing through a wall.
I am all for sarcasm, but I am not sure which way your arrows are aimed- it seems like you are targeting me, but they are hitting someone else.
556-
I approach the issue as you are, and I do not mean to come accross as argumentative or condescending. I see this as a discussion on good guys (us) getting rid of bad guys (the threat) to defend our families and countrymen. At the end of the day this is about good people making informed decisions on how to defend our families, and I definately understand the concept of reducing the hazard of our actions to the very family members we are protecting.
I tried to do some live tissue ballistic testing as you advised, but sadly the requisition forms for Gitmo deteinees requires the CO’s signature, who is TAD right now. 
But back to the topic-
I fully agree that a rifle loaded with pretty much anything is better than a pistol loaded with pretty much anything, for many reasons, overpenetration among them. To complicate the issue, I have offered advice in the past to use 55gr projectiles for HD, and I do not think myself wrong for it.
I do not consider anyone that would use Ballistic Tipped bullets for HD to be an ignoramus or internet commando. It appears that the 55gr (+) are reasonable choices for most people. Since the OP asked for thoughts and opinions- I said was I would be hesitant to use a bullet that failed to achieve at least 12" of penetration in ballistic gelatin (implying the lightweight variety). I see how that could be understood to imply that I wouldn’t shoot someone with it, but what I meant was that given the choice I would select something in the 77/75gr range, such as the 5.56 Hornady TAP.
I understand conducting shoots to satisfy your own curiosity, I was just interested in any pictures you may have had. It’s no problem, I did not mean to imply that you were lying, so apologies if it was taken that way.
A note on the animal shots that keep popping up (not you Hootie). There is a great “to do” made of the exit wounds. Unless the exit wound is a visible hole into the internals of the torso, what you are seeing is the stellate exit wound caused by temporary cavity interacting with the skin, which reacts much more negatively with stress than most internal organs. This is not to say that the bullet didn’t do it’s job on the inside, but to see what terminal performance the projectile provided, a careful dissection of the animal must be carried out by trained personnel. Also, as is pretty obvious, how bullets perform in animals is different than how they perform in people, as the physiology is sufficiently different.
I consider this to be a discussion of concept, nothing more than that. If terminal ballistics and personal selection are verging on religions conviction for anyone, I apologise, and I hope my heresy can be forgiven. I, however, am not fixed im my personl ammo selection, and am willing to rationally discuss my position and understanding.
I agree, animals are not people (let’s not get technical on terminology).
I also say that any round that turns from entry-10" of flesh/organ penetrated into soup is going to be VERY effective. The vitals of the thoracic cavity are NOT clustered next to the spine, they FILL it. I don’t know many people that 10" of penetration into the chest cavity thereof would NOT hit vitals.
Also, assuming an arm or other appendage is struck before the targeted part (COM), the Ballistic tip would do much more damage than an FMJ or OTM to the limb hit, possibly rendering it totally useless, as well as creating lots of blood loss (brachial artery…) and possible psychological defeat.
Failing the above, another attempt is just 5# of pressure away.
Anything that liquiefies the heart/major vascular structures is effective. No dissent. Issues arise with non fully-frontal shots. If the only shot you have is through the bicep/shoulder, then the bullet must penetrate the shoulder, humerous, more muscle of the arm, fat and muscle around the rib-cage, the ribcage, the lung, and significant portions of the heart/major vascular structures. This is where the requirement for a minimum of 12" of penetration comes from.
Also, assuming an arm or other appendage is struck before the targeted part (COM), the Ballistic tip would do much more damage than an FMJ or OTM to the limb hit, possibly rendering it totally useless, as well as creating lots of blood loss (brachial artery…) and possible psychological defeat.
A ballistic tip may cause more damage to a limb than other types, but it may not. Even the robust M-47 AK round can cause massive damage to limbs despite their non-fragmentary performance (see this link). Either way, damage to limbs cannot be relied upon as a stopper. Even significant blood loss from a severed brachial artery may take hours to cause incapacitation (Hemorrhagic Shock).
Gunshots themselves are not instantly painful or unbalancing enough, especially when the victim is under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or adrenaline, to promise incapacitation. Though most non-CNS single shot incapacitations are psychological, the phenominon is not reliable as a method of stopping.
Failing the above, another attempt is just 5# of pressure away.
This is true, multiple shots are better, but is outside the scope of the discussion, and is heavly dependant on the method of employment. One shot is all you might get.
If we are talking about use inside a residence, the average shot distance will be measured in feet, not yards. Consider that an average man can cover 7 yards (21 feet) in 1.5 seconds. If that man begins closing with you, as you make the decision to fire, you just lost about .2-.3 seconds to identify, decide, and act. Sweeping the safety and raising the muzzle will take you another .1-.2 seconds. Establishing some kind of sight picture will take another .1-.3 seconds. This leaves you with 1.1 to .7 seconds (with times that are assuming a high degree of proficiency with no performance degredation under stress) before the aggressor will be physically occupying the space you are, during which time you say you are going to assess the shot’s effectiveness.
Since the muzzle of a 16" carbine is about 2’-3’ from your actual position, the BG will be inside the muzzle in even less than 1.5 seconds. Now just imagine you are actually at room distances, which will be about 10’.
The times needed are not just to get off a shot, but to incapacitate the threat.
The shot after the assessment may be 5 pounds away, but it will be about 1/2 second too late.
Of course, the same argument could be used for any type of round, but shots that penetrate the heart have a much higher incidence of rapid incapacitation than any other non-CNS shot. Either way, count on shooting until the threat drops.