Things that annoy me.

General General Discussion
1

There are numerous things that get under my skin when it comes to weapons (especially the Ar platform) and employment. Since it covers a few different topics I figured that GD would be the best place for the thread, and if it gets out of hand won’t impact any information sub-forum.

Anyway, here goes-

Comparing AR platform weapons to some vehicle comparison. It simply is not an accurate comparison. Nobody is saying that you need a Ferrari over a Ford Ranger. The real comparison would be a reliable vehicle to one that was poorly copied by some random third-world country that doesn’t run on normal fuel and may or may not actually be assembled correctly. The comparison between two virtually identical weapons (aside from material and assembly quality combined with quality control and appropriate testing) to completely different automobiles is stupid.

“Parts is parts” mentality. This applies not only to weapon parts, but accessories as well. They aren’t. Any simple item (of which the AR is full) can be copied and cost-reduced. Much like any structure, you might be able to reduce weight by removing material, but you cannot increase strength by removing material. The difference may be negligable depending on application, or it can be catastrophic if it is subjected to what would normally be the upper limit of strength required. Same thing with cost and quality. To reduce cost, something must be omitted or replaced with a lower-cost option- be it material, assembly time/proficiency of assembler, quality control, a combination of those, or any combination of a multitude of other cost-cutting measures. Now I am not saying that only the most expensive option is the only logical choice, simply that two items on opposite sides of the cost/quality spectrum are not going to be comparable.

Slapping an item on a weapon for 20 minutes and declaring it the best thing since processed cheese. Extended use of an item to determe use, applicability, durability, cost effectiveness, etc is necessary to be of any use in any way other than to put a picture of said item on the errornet for some self-gratifying reason or personal satisfaction. I don’t care about your self-esteem, I want to know how the item helps (or hinders) you in your use. Frame of reference is critical when making a claim or review of a piece of gear. Even if the frame of reference is comparing the item to not having anything comparable at least gives some idea to the audience as to where the review is coming from. If I have never used a bottle-opener before it would be foolish to declare the LaRue Armadillo the best bottle-opener in the world. Better than opening it with a real armadillo, sure, but I would be lacking the experience and knowledge to recommend it over ANYTHING. Just say what you know. Most of the time the most someone can claim is that the item didn’t jettison itself from the weapon while making a youtube video of their incorrect use of said item.

People that feel compelled to snidely inquire if I could fit anything else on my gun. The only things I have on my gun are functional, useful, and applicable to my job (RDS, light, BUIS, sling, VFG). If we both took off the items that we didn’t know how to use, my gun would remain the same while most other’s would be missing a scope, stock, and trigger.

People that fail to comprehend the difference between hobbyist and serious user. If your only use for an AR is to make holes in paper (while I could recommend less costly solutions to rectify the problem of a piece of paper devoid of air-flow), and have no interest in developing your skill beyond that end, please feel free to keep your opinion on tactical matters to yourself. While I fully support your right to own any legal weapon, simply owning a visually similar piece of equipment does not make your opinion valid or relevant. Law enforcement and military members are not the only serious users of the platform (though many of them don’t qualify as serious users either). Anyone that understands the importance of a weapon and trains in it’s use for the defense of life is a serious user. I have met many civilians here on M4C that are more serious about training and dependable gear than most mil or LE that I know.

The “best”. Why do so many people ask about the “best” whatever. There is no “best”, there is only personal opinon. What one person finds to be ideal, someone else may find to be severely lacking, even when all other variables are seemingly similar. Nobody else in the world is just like you in every way, and all items are sub-optimal in some respect. Constantly seeking “the best” is a sure way to eternally chase your tail and spend a lot of money on something relatively insignificant.

Just a few things that bother me, I am sure I will think of others shortly.

Anybody else?

2

Preach.

There’s nothing more absurd than some kid on the internet seeing a picture of an AD SEAL and complaining about how much “shit” is on his rifle.

…because we all know that someone who kills terrorist dimwits for a living has no practical need for a white light, an IR illuminator, an IR laser, some sort of optic, a suppressor, a collapsible stock, or any of the other items that make a carbine a more efficient and effective tool under a variety of circumstances.

3

AMEN!

4

Preach it brother!

I don’t even go into the gun sections of other forums much because of what you posted about.

Better than opening it with a real armadillo, sure,

Hey, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it:p

5

Preach it brother!

6

Hey bro well said. Like wise I have several things that annoy the crap out of me.

  1. This was brought up on another thread but worth bring up for me again. Not everyone who has been in the military was a sniper or recon or delta or a ninja. I am amazed how super billy cool killers there are out there. If you did 2 weeks so be it. if you are a super ninja so be it.

  2. Just because you pay 8 billion dollars for something does not meen it is the best for what you are wanting to do. I agree buy quality gear, but know how much product “X” is everywhere else before you chop off an arm for it.

  3. Do not get into an debate by saying “well I feel” I don’t care about your feelings I care about what is provable. This is not only true when talking about guns & tactics but pretty much everything.

I could go on for quite a while but this is a start. Thanks for providing a place to rant with out hijacking another thread.

7

Things that annoy me:

People who think they’re hot shit because they have a $3000 AR and they go to every carbine class known to man. There is no need for an accountant to spend more time in the field than the office. More than likely, you will never use that training in an actual combat situation. There is no need to run mozambique drills on some schmo trying to steal your tv. You don’t need a top of the line AR to protect your home. Well unless you’re expecting to be raided by a squad of insurgents. A $200 870 will do the job just as well if not better. If you can afford it, and it gets your jollies off, by all means do it. Just know that until you use your super-tactical-ninja skills in a life defending situation, it’s nothing more than a hobby and something to brag about on the internet. But don’t shit on those who can’t afford the “best”, when you will never use yours for anything other than punching holes in man-shaped targets.

8

A good portion of the people on this forum have, in fact “been there, done that, got the T-shirt.”

I listen to them when they tell what works and what doesn’t so that if it comes a time when I have to save my bacon, my chances of survival are hopefully increased. Stacking the deck, if you will. Going cheap on equipment that you may depend on one day does not strike me as a good investment. And wasting money on cheap stuff that you could have put toward good equipment does not seem to be a wise move, either.

Like I said in another thread, I’m the world’s cheapest bastard, but I don’t cut corners on the stuff that matters.

9

One of the reasons I’m here is to learn. I understand the issue of being a newb & I’m sure I’ll ask questions that already have answers…many of which will be asked again in the future as the site continues to grow.

I’m a firm believer that ignorance is curable but stupid is forever.

What annoys me (and i’m talking for most hunting and shooting forums) are the regulars who go out of their way to be smart asses & insult, instead of answering a simple question or more importantly skipping the thread and moving along. Why is it so hard for some to be helpful or silent??

We should want to grow the sport we love…not drive them away. I see it more on hunting forums than shooting but it seems to be rapant. Gotta love the net and safety behind a keyboard.

rant over…

10

11

Why not spend less money for something that does the exact same thing? But enough of this, if you have a problem with my choice of equipment, PM me about it instead of shittin up the threads.

12

Umm…I’m assuming that you were in the Corps because of your title. All that training the Corps put you through? It was preparing you to deal with a life or death situation.

That’s what training is about…not bragging on the internet. Experience is a valuable teacher…but as any experienced individual will tell you it really sucks to learn what doesn’t work in the middle of a gunfight. That’s why you train.

13

I’m a showershoe here, still learning.

The posts so far pretty much mirror what I feel. I’ll add in that going to a school and getting the t-shirt does not make someone an expert. Sometimes it means that they converted oxygen in a course for the required time.

@ Assaultman, I might be one of those types that you don’t like. I bought my weapon strickly for shooting paper, nothing else. I had no idea that there were so many different types of ARs out here, I stuck with a Colt out of loyalty.

I want to teach my family marksmanship with the weapon that I learned from. I don’t know where the President is going to take us, but now seemed like the best time to buy one before it could end up being impossible to get one.

I won’t be putting any high speed low drag kiss me f&$% me gear on my rifle, maybe an ACOG once the family has mastered the iron sights.

I won’t be attending some kind of high speed low drag door kicking classes.

I won’t be stocking up for the sky to fall down, there’s no way in hell I’m going to eat MREs.

I will be proud when my family starts to consistant V rings.

14

I am also here to learn. I have been trying to get a rifle for over a year due to $ issues among other things. Come tomorrow I will have mine. I want to be comfortable with my rifle by training hard. Sometimes it is a little intimidating to ask for help on the threads, avoid getting bashed. Have been sending pm’s and emails lately though. Some really helpful, experienced people here.

15

Yes I am in the Marines and I agree about the training. What I don’t understand is why someone that will never need that kind of training will refer to it as more than a hobby.

16

Putting on my mod hat here for a minute, let me say this:

Questions are always welcome on M4C. This site exists to promote the exchange of GOOD information, especially to those who need the information most like beginners.

Do not hesitate to ask for help here. I would encourage you to use the search function to see what’s already out there, but that doesn’t mean you can’t ask questions. People who ask legitimate questions in a legitimate effort to learn are doing exactly what we WANT them to do here.

If we catch people unjustly bashing somebody who is just seeking information the mods and staff will deal with them.

Generally if you show up with an open mind and a genuine desire to learn you’ll get along just fine. The people who have the hardest time here are those who are pretty sure they have it all figured out. :wink:

17

I could not even begin to count the number of times I’ve seen someone (in local shops) belittle someone else over shooting abilities (and equipment), and often they are missing the point they are trying to impress someone with. They seem to be trying to convence everyone around them that they are the ‘best’ that has ever been. This is a very hurtful attitude to have, it does not help grow the sport/hobby/ etc. And it is even more rampant on the ‘net’.

Failure,
Thanks for starting this thread, I too was annoyed by a recent thread but did not want jump into an debate with a fool. I would only stoop to that level and then get beat with experience.

Like Artos said, you can’t fix stupid.

Rant off, I’m out.

18

That’s the root of the issue. “Never need that kind of training…” There are lots of people who do not fast rope out of blackhawk helicopters who find themselves in a life or death situation where they have to use lethal force to stop another human being from killing them.

In that moment it doesn’t matter much whether that individual is a Sunni terrorist in Baghdad or an MS-13er sticking a gun in your face as a part of a gang initiation…the need to put the threat down as efficiently and effectively as possible is there. The skills necessary to do it are the same.

Yes, if combat is part of your job description then you have more of a need for training than others…but think about this:

Every Marine is a rifleman, right? And yet only a small percentage of the Corps is the “tip of the spear”. Why bother to train support troops? Why bother to have cooks who can shoot expert with an M16?

…because the simple reality of the world we live in is that a low speed, high drag Marine can find himself in the middle of an ambush and might just have to fight his way out of it. Combat may not be his job description, but the bad guys don’t just shoot at the super studs.

The exact same principle applies to law enforcement and civilians here in the states. A nutcase off his meds can kill you just as dead as an Iraqi insurgent. Thus learning how to deal with a lethal threat is a good idea whether you are kicking down doors in Baghdad or baking cookies in Ohio.

19

As a Marine 03 several times over and one that continues to train them, nobody (including Marines) ever NEEDS that type of training until they need it very badly, right NOW. Ergo, it helps to get it ahead of time so you can at least fall to the lowest common denominator of what training you have had once you get hit with the adrenaline dump. That may still end up being “curl up and die,” but at least the attempt is made. Is it so tough to comprehend why somebody might want to PT like they’re training for a marathon, yet never run one? They probably think that they’re netting some benefit, at no cost to anybody else.

On another hand, I think many would agree that those that investigate, procure, and receive training that they will “never need” are far more responsible about firearm ownership in general than the gap-toothed Jethros, suburban Afro-Saxon gangsta wannabes, and other dilettantes of all shades and types who purchase whatever caught their eye in the most recent right-wing action flick. These idiots figure they learned everything they needed to know when they saw the version of Punisher with the dude from Rome in it. Horrible movie, BTW.

In the same vein, that civilian self-defense practitioner (who may or may not have more high-end training) who is willing to talk down to an experienced combatant about “what it’s like” to actually take down a building or bust a near ambush, or dismisses the input of a combatant because it doesn’t profile with whatever course(s)…yeah, that guy immediately gets a punch right between his lamps.

ETA: In case it comes up…no, I’m NOT saying that I’ve sen that here. Elsewhere, hell yeah.

20

We could be here awhile talking about what annoys me…

How about when you go to a bar called Cowboys, and there are people there complaining about country music…

How about people who come into your living room and take a crap on the coffee table?

How about people who think there chosen service/mos and combat tour makes them an expert on EVERYTHING
see what I’m getting at.

F2S hit a lot of good points, as did others.

Training is a good thing, why you do it, or if its necessary for you is irrelevant. The more you know, the more you know. Not having to deal with POS equipment while attempting to learn something is also a good thing.

Comparing a 60 dollar import/knockoff part to the real deal that cost 4 times and has been accepted for service is ridiculous. As is claiming it’s just as good as, and your paying for the name, even worse after having done nothing more then shoot a few rounds thru it on the flat range.
Most quality equipment has a name and reputation for a reason, how do you think it got the “Name”?

Bob