#2 is an assumption is #1 if true. 
No exceptions? No “night time service” provision? No-knocks can and have been pretty abused, but that knocks out quite a tool in the toolbox.
I can’t ever remember using a chainsaw, or even taking one along. Halligans, rams, bolt cutters, breaching rounds, and boom-boom putty, but never a chainsaw. I’d like to read the affidavit and op-plan.
I’m all for giving LE the “tools they need to do the job” but somehow I just don’t think anyone is going to equate “chainsaw” with “search warrant” so much as deranged killers. And it is all too common for home invaders to scream “police, FBI or even IRS” and nylon raid jackets can be bought anywhere.
I think I have also officially upgraded my typical home defense weapon from a pistol caliber SMG to a AR SBR. If you are going to chainsaw a persons door, you better be 100% you have the right door because some of us are going to repel all boarders to the best of our ability.
The FBI response stuns me the most, they were way too cavalier about chainsawing the wrong door. A simple apology and willingness to replace the door for the landlord doesn’t even begin to address the wrong that was done. Their response indicates that they believe this to be some kind of routine and acceptable error which doesn’t require any major changes.
The reality is they are going to get the wrong door one day and innocent homeowners, FBI agents or both are going to end up dead. It is of course inevitable that errors will occur and eventually somebody will get the wrong address, and it is critical that the law abiding home owners (who may be armed) in that situation clearly and positively be able to identify the members of law enforcement and distinguish them from home invaders (possibly posing as law enforcement) during such a situation.
I think most reasonable people would fire on anyone entering with a chainsaw.
When I did VBSS in the navy we had a deck saw at our disposal.
Already happened. Thank you “War on Drugs.”
I’m waiting for the day when an entry team hits the wrong house and encounters somebody more serious than some bleary-eyed homeowner with a hunting rifle. It will be VERY interesting to find out if “good faith error” extends to the citizenry when the cop ox gets gored.
ETA:
I think most reasonable people would fire on anyone entering with a chainsaw.
In this day of home invasion, particularly in some areas, I think most reasonable people will shoot anyone entering their home using force, regardless of entry tool used.
Already has
Really? Wow.
Can you post the case?
Jose Guerena comes to mind when I think of botched drug raid. Except there wasn’t a happy ending, no drugs were found, the department changed their story multiple times surrounding Jose’s death and tried to character assassinate the Marine, saying “he had guns and body armor” and “a piece of police uniform”.
I’m no secret squirrel…but man…this is the footage from that raid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0f00_JMak
The only case that comes to mind where a homeowner shot and killed an officer whom he thought was breaking in was Ryan Frederick. He is serving 10 years in the pen and that was “lenient” given all the questionable events leading up to the shooting and the massive community support.
I dont see how the Guerena raid was “botched”. Correct address, multiple knock and announcements, everyone in uniform, etc.
The one case that immediately pops into my mind involved a home owner that shot a police officer that had entered his residence while investigating an alarm activation. I dont remember exactly when or where it occurred.
Botched because the intel claims he was a drug dealer or dressed up as a cop to rob other drug dealers? (the story has changed several times). At this point, all we have to go on is the police report, and the story of neighbors and the family. No such evidence turned up. As of now, it’s all speculation. No details have been released on how this information was obtained (notoriously spotty practice of paid informants? observation?) Folks and even a school have been raided for growing what turns out to be tomato plants. Botched intel.
And none of this has to do with what this thread is about. Lets get back to the original topic, or something close to it.
That’s what I would imagine too if someone were punching their way through my front door with a chainsaw!
Not sure what I would do but I got to tell you it would be a terrifying moment for sure!
I can imagine an easy counter would be to run a 220 line across the door with the other end of the circuit at the doormat on the outside and bypass the breaker. I do not like the idea of sticking a saw into an unknown.
Here’s a great example of a botched raid. It seems all it would have taken was for one person to make a few simple calls. Unfortunately that’s not as sexy as gearing up and slamming the door.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/30/AR2008073003299.html
Chainsaws and cut-off saws have been used for breaching by military SOF for quite some time.
If the door has a shit ton of locks it can be a pain in the ass to mechanically breach it. They’re going to know you’re out there while you’re muckin’ around with the door. The saw is arguably quicker in certain situations, especially if there is a crossbar.
When you have to get in to a room you do what you gotta do. Explosives are usually the the best way to go but may not always be an option.
Broco torches work good for certain situations as well.
The key word here is military.
In this particular incident we have a US citizen, a single mom at home with her infant daughter in their apartment, not some tango in a compound in Shitakistan.
Chainsaws have been in use by law enforcement for years. Do people think this is the first time it’s occurred?
I wonder if they were referring to the one shown in the image in this website: Gasoline Powered Rescue Saw
Drug runners were shipping packages to the addresses of people who had no idea what was going on, then attempting to retrieve them before the residents got home.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/24/AR2011012405711.html
The dog turned to run from that deputy, who shot the dog twice, Calvo said.
Calvo said the deputies who invaded his home were not told that no one in the home had any criminal record.
The lawsuit alleged that deputies failed to “knock and announce” their presence before storming in. Some deputies were under the impression that police had obtained a “no knock” warrant, which police had not applied for, Maloney said.
County police officers and sheriff’s deputies also failed to consult Berwyn Heights police before the raid.
Days after the raid, police said that Calvo and Tomsic knew nothing about the package of marijuana and had nothing to do with the drug trade.
An internal sheriff’s department investigation found no wrongdoing by deputies. Then-Sheriff Michael A. Jackson said his deputies “did their jobs to the fullest extent of their abilities.”
Their abilities suck.