The need for Low Light Training

Great topic and yes I need more LL training too. I have been to several classes that do short night shooting sessions but they have never really gone in to great depth and spent more than a couple of hours at the most doing some of the real basics. None have been in shoot houses either so I am still lacking in this skill set to say the least. I really would like to be able to go out and do night/LL training for an entire 2-3 day class if that would be possible and get as many tools in the toolbox as possible from it.

Let me know of any training classes that would really be full on LL training and I would love to attend!

Thanks again Grant for getting this topic going!:slight_smile:

It was some funny stuff. :sarcastic:

He is much cooler than I (for sure). :big_boss:

C4

You are welcome.

Before we can let you in the house for LL, we have to see how much you know during the daylight (building blocks). So I would first get some experience with DEFENSIVE clearing (in daylight) and then move into the night stuff.

C4

The class was straight-up awesome. Getting to train with Mr. Hackathorn was truly amazing and the fact that he was willing to chat with us off the firing line and at lunch just proves he’s head and shoulders above industry-average pistol instructors. Thankfully Grant and Sgt. Watson are the same way: always willing to answer questions about tactics, gear, whatever. It goes a long way to make students feel comfortable and save the stress for the shoot-house.

Taking the time to address each of us personally and comment on our strengths and weaknesses was greatly appreciated as well. Unfortunately “but honey, Ken Hackathorn told me I had to buy a new handgun” didn’t fly but I’m working on it.

We got to take shots through the cracks between doors and their frames; that was a question I had after our last class down there. Really glad we were told to take those shots by the instructors because if I had built a $50K shoot-house, I wouldn’t let me take that shot; doors ain’t cheap. Goes to show our instructors care more about training us properly than keeping the furniture mint.

Still haven’t managed to shoot a cop or a hostage (my apologies to a couple of innocent bystanders though) but there was plenty of other FUBAR to go around. Shooting in the dark suuucks. Shooting in the dark with a POS hand-held light sucks more. Huge improvement when I switched to my HD gun with a weapon-mounted light.

The kids-down-the-hall drill was a great curveball. Playing it like it was real made me want to go “Zorro-ing” into the hallway to get to them ASAP. Look both ways before committing to a hallway but KH made a great point in that the quicker you react, the less the bad guys can penetrate into the house.

Getting to watch Grant and Sgt. Watson demo house clearing -both solo and as a team- was much appreciated. It’s helpful to see it done the right way so I can better understand where my mistakes were. And yeah, don’t be a bad guy in T-County. Just sayin’.

The importance of Sul and proper trigger finger discipline were brought to the foreground in ways I know I’ll never forget. That’s something I’ll be harping on for many years to come.

All-in-all another great class with excellent instruction, much to learn, great group of classmates, plenty of ‘oh-shit’ moments that make the lessons unforgettable, and the opportunity to learn from a living legend (and earn the world’s worst nickname). Heck, even the pizza was good.

Thanks so much for letting me be a part of it.

-Dan

Nice write-up Little Girl Pie :jester:

Aaargh!!! There’s just no way to ever make that sound cool, is there?

I agree. Good writeup. How about " Mr. Little Girl Pie?":smiley:

Hackathorn is a classic and comprises all the things I look for in an instructor (.Mil background, LE background, articulate, first hand experiece, gun history knowledge, humble, great shooter and friendly).

I think you guys got an “8X10” Glossy of what real world safety looks like, how your brain works under stress and what you are capable of doing (and not doing).

Thanks for coming to the class. You are a good student (as was everyone in the class).

C4

Grant: from what Kenny said this was your church group only. not only did u do a good deed for the safety of your church brethern, and charge nothing but u had to give up a days work or shoot while a machine gun shoot was going on down the road. either 1 is tough.

you are to be commneded for putting personal relationships above money. Kenny said he was happy to help. you also hit the nail on the head. military/top notch l.e. are the 1 with real world experience. the need to been there" is paramount when selecting an instructor, i.e. Ken. its hard to splain" something when u only read it on t.o.s. or in a school.

nice job

So what was the consensus on this scenario? This would be a very realistic scenario for me, my family and our home layout…

Do you go slow and methodically, using light tactically, and clear your way to the end of the hall?

Do you take a quick scan with the light, charge in, and occupy that section of the home before the bad guys know what they are dealing with?

I guess that also depends on where the intruder MAY BE by what you hear and detect…

Another variable is if electrical power is ON or OFF. If ON, then there are enough glowing LEDS and lights from entertainment center, computer equipment, DSL modems, Wireless routers, and night lights in outlets, etc…, that the light may not be needed much, except to light up the bad guy/guys and disorient them while they spring leaks in their center mass… If OFF, then it would be pitch black…

One plus I have, as I think others do as well, is that I often stay up late and have to make my way to the bedroom in the dark, so I know how to navigate MY HOUSE in darkness, and an intruder does NOT, which means a big advantage.

Rmpl

I’d say you have to strike a speed balance of making sure the kids are secure as quickly as possible without doing something that’ll get you taken out of the fight. If I give up two thirds of the house because I’m taking 30 seconds to pie each corner, my tactics suck.

For my particular layout, I have the strategic advantage in that -once I’ve checked the kids’ room- all I need do is turn around and I own the stairs. They’re switchback with a balcony so a bad guy couldn’t make it up the first step without compromising himself.

That’s all well and good for a bump in the night when the kids are in bed; if someone were to attempt to force the door while the kids were playing in different parts of the house it would be an entirely different story. That’s why I’m a firm believer in putting my handgun on in the morning and leaving it on until time to go to sleep. Truth is, I’ve one-man-cleared my house regularly since we bought it. My family is used to seeing me work the angles. It’s just now Grant & Co. taught me how to do it smarter, safer, and faster.

As far as the light issue, I agree with Grant: if I can make it out my bedroom door, I can light up most of the house just by flipping on a light switch. It might not be “tactical” but it’ll work (and I could always paint the switch black or FDE).

There’s usually a good bit of light in the house at night anyway with LED nightlights and the kitchen sink fluorescent always on. One thing I’ve gotten good at is navigating the house with just the light from my cell-phone’s screen.

For power outages, those nifty little nightlights that automatically turn into an emergency light when the power goes out are available from the hardware store. BTW- if the only phone you own is a cell phone or a cordless, your tactics suck. Always keep an old corded phone on hand. I actually have a scaled down corded phone that goes in my BOB with 30 ft of phone line so I could tap into someone’s TNI box in an emergency.

This topic is something I’ve put a lot of time and effort into; I’d encourage each of you to a) work out a plan with your spouse if you have one and b) see how long it takes you to take over your house from the bad guy’s perspective (i.e. once your entryway is open, how long would it take a bad guy to reach your room and incapacitate you).

If I heard a door being forced, I’d have gun in hand and be out the door to check the kids’ room and own the stairs at an angle such that if I start taking incoming rounds, they’re not directed at my family. On my word, my wife is out of the bedroom with a Mossberg 500 .410 loaded with Federal’s new .410 Handgun HD loads and she knows how to use it. Her job is to secure the kids, lock the door and call the police if possible. Not letting other occupants of the house know what the plan is for any type of emergency is ten shades of stupid.

Ok, climbing down off my soapbox.

-LGP :smiley: