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21

Really?

I lived there twice, non military, on the economy. Total slightly under 3.5 years. On the whole, I feel much freer here.

I’ve never seen anyone getting crap for walking around with an open can of beer or anything.

Go to a baseball game. Plenty of beer cups.

I’ve seen lots of community carnivals and stuff in the US. Equivalent of a “Fest.” And in some of those areas, they sell beer by the cup at them.

As an aside: true story. While living there in 86-87, as an LDS missionary, I was taking my new companion to register in the city once he arrived. In Germany, everyone has to register within a few days with the citizen registration office of their new city (called Anmelden). You un-register (Abmelden) when you move out and take that form to the new city’s registration office. Supposedly Hotels are supposed to register you with the registration office as well when you are in town but I don’t know if that really happens.

As non Germans (but white Americans) in some towns we also had to go to a Foreigners office so they could conform our residency permits, which had been issued in Munich, before we could register.

So, we walk in to the registration office. Go to the office to get the other guy’s residency permit verified, and then registered in the city. We waited maybe 5-10 minutes to get the residency permit verified, and another 5 minutes or 10 minutes to get the registration done. When we first entered I saw some Turkish people sitting there. Probably people who had been born and raised in Germany. They had been waiting when we got there. We got our business done and were out and they were still waiting to be called up when we left. They were probably there waiting to be called up for several hours or half a day from what others told me later.

The point: having to register/un-register with the city when you move is not being free. Having to sit there, because your Turkish, for 1/2 a day to get a 10 minute service taken care of is not free either.

The firearms laws are much stricter in Germany.

They took a lot more taxes out of my paycheck as well than here, and here is ridiculous enough. [my second period living there was working for Digital Equipment GmbH in Munich, the Germany subsidiary of a one-time US computer company called DEC, which no longer exists and is part of HP now]

However, I do like the feeling of freedom driving on the autobahn. And I don’t mean the feeling of going fast (though that is fun too). I mean the feeling of not having to look behind every tree, look at every car for steel wheels on a Dodge Charger ;), or otherwise worry about where mr cop is hiding when I am driving. That is nice to not have to be so uptight. (And I don’t generally drive very fast or outside of the rhythm of the traffic).

So there are trade offs. Other countries do have aspects of freedom that beat the US. But I would much rather be in the US long term than in Germany, though I enjoyed being there and working there. (A lot of it depends on which state you live in too, of course)

We can’t also have people doing farmers markets selling produce thats not govt AKA mansanto approved!

I’ve seen plenty of farmer’s type markets in the US.

22

We are still the greatest country. We have issues, as do all nations. NOBODY can match the opportunity to succeed or fail based upon an individuals talents and efforts. It does not matter what your parents did to earn a living. It does not matter what your skin color is…unless you decide it does. If you have a great or unique idea and are willing to put in the work AND SACRIFICE, you can be the next Bill Gates or Henry Ford. People from around the world are willing to forsake their place of origin for the opportunity to be an American. There are other free nations. They are only free, because their government says that they are a free nation. We are unique in that we believe we are free, because OUR CREATOR SAYS SO. Our government merely affirms the proposition. Our Constitution is specifically written as such that we are able to overthrow those who govern us when they no longer do so without our consent. Some people are free, but I submit that we are more free. As such our freedom often causes us to make stupid decisions. However, the brilliance shown by our founding fathers has kept us a few steps ahead of our follies.

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24

As most of you know, my wife was born and raised in Japan and came to the US as an adult (for educational reasons).

She often tells me about how Americans behave and act and how different it is than in Japan. And the things she says are not derogatory, but complimentary to Americans.

Things like how Americans do what they want, and don’t worry about how it fits in. (For positive things). How Americans, in general, treat everyone equally well (or terrible). There are obviously exceptions but she has mentioned it to me many times when she sees someone doing something or behaving in a way that someone in Japan wouldn’t, and I am not talking about crazy crap or stupid stuff or anything like that that someone should be embarrassed about. The feeling she tries to convey goes along with the idea of this being a land of opportunity and how anyone can do (or try to do and succeed or not) what they set their minds to, no matter where they come from, their circumstances, etc.

I wish I could think of a specific example but my mind goes blank. The last time she said it was around the 4th.

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25

Not just in the US… But you are right. That certainly exists here.

26

Lol germany is NOTHING like that now, or at least when I was there.

I am guessing you were there pre EU days, and its a lot different now. Flying back and forth I could have a AT4 in my carry on and I just walked straight out of the airport. I forget how many times I flew back and forth but it was at least 5 times. All 5 times I picked my bag off the conveyor and walked right out onto the street.

But I do kinda know what you are talking about. In 97 they still had check points. Post EU I went to over 10 different countries and had a passport check only once. The fuckers wouldn’t even stamp my passport when I asked. Also have a close friend now that has family in Denmark, and they go to get bier in germany because the taxes were lower.

27

Germany was part of the EU (or its predecessor the ECC) every time I lived there and visited there.

Yes, most of the time you just picked up your bags, chose the green door to walk out of, and you were out. (This is after the passport control of course). I was pulled aside once and asked to bring my bags and myself into a side room and open them up for inspection. The guy kept asking me the same question over and over again (I don’t remember what the question was) and then let me go. The rest of the time, I just got my stuff and put it on a baggage cart and walked out the door.

But I do kinda know what you are talking about. In 97 they still had check points. Post EU I went to over 10 different countries and had a passport check only once. The fuckers wouldn’t even stamp my passport when I asked. Also have a close friend now that has family in Denmark, and they go to get bier in germany because the taxes were lower.

When I lived there 86-87 and 91-93 there were passport controls between countries but most of the time you just rolled through them in most cases. I did not cross the border very much but went to Austria with some teenagers for a church youth activity one afternoon for the day and we just rolled through back then (92). There was a border guard station but they just waved everyone through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

(As an aside, in 1986, when I was a missionary, my first city was near the French border and the Rhine. We went 6 miles to a small town on the Rhine and the french border across from Strassburg (Strasbourg) one afternoon to talk to people on the street. Our missionary rules was we were not to leave Germany at all for any reason, as the church had vouched for us and was responsible for our being in country and wanted to avoid problems, amongst other reasons. The other guy I was with wanted to get his passport stamped, but I was a newby and so was more strict with the rules than I would have been later [I would still never have left the country but I would have gone all the way across the river to the French side to get my passport stamped]. We did go through the German border crossing control station and walked half way out over the Rhine and watched the river for a while, etc. Then we went back to the German side and the other guy asked to get his passport stamped. The German guy was going to oblige until he saw there was no French stamp. Then he got suspicious and started asking all sorts of questions wondering what we had been doing out on the bridge, etc. This was 1986 – way pre 09/11. Finally, after like 5 minutes of interrogation, I guess he figured we weren’t terrorists and let us through, but I don’t think he stamped the other guy’s passport)

The last few times I visited there (in the 2000s) they checked the passport coming in to the first EU country, but they also checked it when flying between France and Germany for example, in a cursory way [probably because they have separate lines for EU/Schengen citizens and non-EU/Schengen citizens] but when driving between countries there is no real control.

People have been coming over the border to buy stuff a lot longer than just the last 10 or 15 years since the last big EU treaty was signed. My brother was in Switzerland in 89-90, IIRC, and was on the German border. They used to cross over to Germany to do grocery shopping because the DM was a cheaper currency than the SFR and they had a limited budget and could make it go 15% further by doing so.

But I am pretty sure that inside Germany you still register and unregister when you move your residency. So, the latest EU treaties etc have done nothing for the stuff I talked about.

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28

Not sure what tell you other than in 2002 my best friend and I went there the day after we graduated HS, and I was stationed there from 2002-2007. I also went in 97 when I was 13.

From our trip in 2002 to when I left in 2007 I was only once asked for “papers” and that was on a train trip between paris and austria. We had to go through Germany, and during the german leg the germans came on board and asked for passports. This Iraqi guy about 2 seats up didn’t have anything, and they took him off the train at the next stop. Other than that we went from country to country without anything. Flying back and forth between 2003 and 2007 I got my bag off the machine and walked right out the door. I was on a taxi back to Wiesbaden within minutes. I remember once I took a train and it was like 45 minutes. Im saying the baggage area had like one guy in there and you just walked out the airport just like “that”.

29

maybe its the state where you live ? or more a east coast thing
lots of celebrations where I lived and seemed half the people drinking if they want no worries ?
and halloween was insane !!!

farmers market was all local grown and even here in PHX these days local grown markets no GMO crap is common ?
gun laws are way more strict in Germany than here IMHO :slight_smile:
and gas prices are double ?

I like parts of Europe but not sure I would want to live their ! surely would not want to be wealthy their

I think Germany is nicer than some countries in the EU though and like anywhere pros cons to everything
but I am not much a east coast person for the US or California etc… I would rather live in Germany than NY

30

If you read what I wrote, I am not really disagreeing with the border crossing or getting off the airplane and walking out the green door at “customs”. The getting off the plane and walking out the green door you describe has been that way since the 80s at least.

On air travel they still check passports of non EU people more often than for EU people [there are two separate lines when you get off the plane] but in my experience traveling through Paris and on to Rome and/or Germany over several trips (post 97 changes) they almost never stamped the passport and often just waved you on. Cross border by ground (car/train) there was almost no controls at all. I am not disagreeing with you.

I don’t see what this has to do with registering in the city you live. Ie, are actually a resident in (“on the economy” not with .gov or the military, which is probably different and controlled by SOFA).