Better than a shotgun in the house.
Good job, Mr. Haith.
I bet that the oxygen thief doesn’t attempt to rob another home, if he lives.
He might sue… After all, he has to make a living somehow, right? :sarcastic:
Not likely…
The homeowner reportedly hit the intruder in the stomach, causing him to flee the home before collapsing in a nearby daycare.
A stomach blast with 9 pellets of 12g 00B and he would not run away…
Too bad he didn’t have Mk 262 ammo. There’d have been no fleeing the scene.
(BTW… where’s are fellow member who proclaimed the AR as a toy for him and said not one case of an AR defense usage existed?)
Shotgun is a piss poor home defense choice. Not better than carbine in any category… Capacity, flash, recoil, accessories, penetration/overpenetration… NOT ONE category does the Shotgun win. Now this guy probably didn’t have the optimal ammo… and a gut shot is not guarantee of anything with either weapon.
I disagree.
Modular, light weight, shorter, and correct rounds to prevent over penetration (wasn’t reported if some had), the AR is better. If they run, even being shot, the threat to my family and me is over, unless they want to try again.
Shotgun is a piss poor home defense choice.
LOL…
Brilliant retort. Why even own an AR if a bird gun is the answer??
I’d be thrilled to know what it is that a shotgun does better than a carbine?
(I guess if given the choice of a pair of scissors, a ruger 10/22, or a Shotgun, then in that context the Bird gun is the best option… any AR owner who fights with a bird gun, however, is a Retard)
Loud stick. Seriously though, I have a carbine loaded with 28 rounds and no shot gun. I know where my priorities and comfort zones are.
I know you are sold on the AR as the only answer to any problem so…
Within the scope of the Home Defense scenario, so do not mention range, accuracy, “But law Enforcement says, yada yada, the 12g shotgun delivers far more devastating wound potential than any carbine. If the recoil is an issue for you, I’ll let you speak to my 5’5” wife who can handle a Mossberg 590 loaded with Federal PD132.
With a single pull of the trigger, the 12g delivers nine .33 pellets. into ~3" hole inside 10 yards. The carbine shooter needs to get off 9 shots to compare the terminal effects and he will sacrifice both time and accuracy…
But I’m sure you have fancy retort that is wrong. Every criticism of the shotgun on this site, applies to issues other than effectiveness on target…
I have both an AR and Shotgun loaded. I am comfortable with both. I encourage any one to use the biggest bang they can handle… 
Federal Flight Control PD132 at 10 yards:
Lucky for him, the bad guy was a bad shot.
Absolutely true. No gun is worth a shit if you get killed first.
not even in sound cuncussion. ever been indoor next to a shotgun blast? i mean hell you can tell the shotguns by sound at an outdoor range.
Wrong. I own shotguns and bird hunt with them. I own bolt guns and shoot .308 / 300WM with them.
the 12g shotgun delivers far more devastating wound potential than any carbine.
Completely wrong. Potentially a slug could come close or even exceed in wounding, but the overpenetration in a structure, monumental flash, and inefficient recoil aren’t worth the trade off. I could get 3 Mk 262 off during the cycle of one slug.
If the recoil is an issue for you, I’ll let you speak to my 5’5" wife who can handle a Mossberg 590 loaded with Federal PD132.
Recoil is inefficiency in a gun fight. It’s lost time when fractions of seconds count.
With a single pull of the trigger, the 12g delivers nine .33 pellets. into ~3" hole inside 10 yards. The carbine shooter needs to get off 9 shots to compare the terminal effects and he will sacrifice both time and accuracy…
Completely absurd. Those pellets individually do not have the same properties of a jacketed rifle round. They’re more comparable to 9 rounds of 22 Lr.
I encourage any one to use the biggest bang they can handle…
Ok… I’ll grab the 300 Win Mag.
Federal Flight Control PD132 at 10 yards:
I’ve run Flight control, and it’s a good product for LE agencies who’ve got no option for a Patrol Rifle program. It still falls short of Carbine fire in every category.
if i had only 1 round of ammunition i might pick the shotgun. however with the laws the way they are, shotguns tend to be longer and more unwieldy. it’s not that a well aimed shot isn’t possible with both types of firearm, it’s how quickly can you mount and shoot? if you’re searching and clearing, did you already have the firearm mounted? indoor no less where there are doorways and hallways where you have to work around.
most encounters give you a mere fraction of a second to react. the article said the startled intruder shot first. action is always faster than reaction. since you’re behind the curve usually due to reaction timing and stress the followup shot becomes much more important than the initial shot. it’s very difficult to do something perfectly the first time. that’s why champion shooters practice stages before they execute them for time. in real life there’s no dry run (unless you’re a special missions unit orchestrating something that’s not an impromptu home invasion).
I disagree with the 9 of .22lr equivalent point. At the ranges at issue and the velocity involved, that is a sledge hammer compared to a ball-ping hammer. In either case, both suck to get in in the nuts with.
All other issues I completely agree with. Recovery and follow shots is the key. Lots of bangs in quick succession makes people cower and run more effectively.
I’d figure the only person who would favor a shotgun in this situation would be Joe Biden.
I think the key to success is not one of AR-15 vs. shotgun, but an issue of “some warning / preparation” vs. “no warning / preparation.”
A big problem is a LOT of people grab the gun and search the house thinking “it can’t be” and wait until they see an actual person with a a gun to accept that they now have a gun fight. It’s hard enough playing catch up, it’s even harder when you don’t realize the game already started.
With enough warning and preparation you can get away with a .38 revolver, not that I’m advocating that over any other defensive firearm.
Your comprehension of wound ballistics is suspect at best. This statement is simply false.
If you want a suspect understanding of wounding:
Someone that asserts that a .223/5.56 single projectile is more damaging than a 12g slug…I have no words for that…
And to claim that nine .33 pellets at 1100+ft/sec are less effective than an actual .22 (.224) …
My goodness…Good luck…Out.