So I am sitting in my shop today and in walks a twenty something girl with her parents. She has been looking for a gun for self defense (not CCW) and wanted to see what we had to offer. We show her M&P’s, snubby revolvers, Walther PPS and some other odds and ends.
She then asks about shotguns. I explain some of the issues with them for home defense and ask her why she was interested in them (as most 115lbs girls have little interest in shooting these). She tells us that the other gun stores she had visited told here that this was the best choice for her.
Once I heard this, I asked her if they told her that the sound of racking the shotgun would scare off the bad guy?? She said yes! I said did they also tell you that you do not have to aim a shotgun either? She said yes! :rolleyes:
So yet again, my fellow gun store owners are perpetuating two of the biggest defensive lies ever told. :mad:
A shotgun is actually a good choice for a lot of people. They’re inexpensive, require little in the way of maintenance, easier to aim than a handgun, and have relatively simple manuals of arms, and substantially greater lethality than a handgun.
A 115# girl can handle a 20g shotgun easily with minimal training … certainly no more training than she’d need to be equally competent with a semiauto pistol.
And while I’d certainly never count on the sound of a round being racked into the chamber to stop a determined BG in his tracks, who among us hasn’t heard that sound unexpectedly and immediately switched to high alert? It’s distinctive and even if it just scares off the mildly motivated, that beats the crap out of getting robbed, raped, or even having to go through the hassle of shooting someone in your home, doesn’t it?
Todd brings up a good discussion point.
When I read Grant’s post I was immediately struck by the stupidity of the reasons stated by the others, of course. But then I started rolling the various options through my head.
What would I recommend a 20 something 115 lb woman for a HD gun? And of course, cost is a consideration.
We all know that a handgun is more difficult to achieve markmanship proficiency than a long-gun. While EBRs fill the job well, frankly they are a bit scary to most first-gun females and relatively expensive. Shotguns offer very good terminal performance and when properly sized are not too difficult to manipulate. I think the 870 20 ga youth model would be pretty good.
I am of the mind that a shotgun may be a very good choice, as long as appropriate training is sought.
You are assuming that the girl could hold the shotgun up. This one could barely shoulder it. She has also never fired one and the recoil would most likely scar her forever.
The best choice for a defensive weapon is one that you will practice with. This person is NOT going to go out and fire a couple hundred rounds of shotgun ammo.
A properly set up age/size-appropriate shotgun (like the 20g Youth mentioned by F2S), with light loads, is every bit as easy to learn on as a handgun. It’s also substantially less likely to get pointed in an unsafe direction (much easier to point a handgun at yourself than a 18-20" bbl shotgun).
In about an hour you can teach a non-gun person to load a shotgun, fire it, and keep it in a safe but ready condition. In the event of danger, all she has to do is rack a round in the chamber, shoulder the gun, and get a long-barreled shoulder weapon properly aligned on a close range target. Pull the trigger. Let the little lead balls do the rest.
The odds of needing multiple shots is far less. If anyone wants to argue that a decent 20g buck load is no more lethal than a handgun round, have at it.
I do not think the shotgun is an ideal home defense weapon. But it is a perfectly good alternative, and a superior one for folks with minimal training.
Hey, it worked for me once. Someone at about 1 AM was trying to pull the door off the hinges. I got next to the door and “racked” my 870. Next thing I heard was the guy beat feet off the front porch.
The recoil of shotguns (even 20ga) is too much for a lot of female shooters. The added complexity of the safety and racking the shotgun is also too much complexity as well IMHO.
A good snubby revolver or G-Lock/MP is a much simplar tool I think and if she decided to get her CCW, she is good to go already and does not have to buy another weapon.
Grant – I’ve never found an adult who was incapable of handling a 20g shotgun with a little training. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I’ve met far more women who’d struggle with the DA pull on a revolver.
I’d also argue that the manual of arms even on a gun like a Glock/M&P is far more complicated and prone to user-induced problems than a shotgun. As for the safety, it’s a non-issue. Keep the gun chamber empty with the safety off. When the shooting is all over, rack the gun back into chamber empty condition.
It’s certainly true that having a handgun will make things easier down the road if she chooses to CCW.
I would agree that someone intent on causing specific harm to a specific person may not run away just because he hears the sound of a shotgun. But in general terms, criminals are predators searching for the weakest prey. A threat indicator like a shotgun being loaded is certainly likely to make most of them rethink their prey selection.
If you’re worried about assassins, sure, giving away your position and all that is a bad idea. But as I said earlier, even if it only works some of the time, it’s better than shooting someone.
edited to add: I’ve got a 12g Simunition kit. I can tell you from numerous personal experiences that when students or role players hear the shotgun being racked on the other side of a wall or door, it immediately causes folks to reassess their threat level. Again, if you’re worried about being attacked by a team of trained ninja assassins, you probably don’t want to give them warning. If you’re a typical home owner living in suburbia, the meth addict who picked your house because you have the nicest furniture visible through the windows is probably not quite as motivated.
I shoot a 20ga shotgun for upland bird and have had female shooters shoot it and hand it back to me “no thank you!” I just think that the length of stocks, weight and complexity of “knobs, button and charmbering of round” is often times a lot for them to do under stress.
I showed here my M&P with the X300 and Devgru switch along with CT laser grips. She grabbed the weapon and got illumination and designation at the same time. She could also activate the light/laser with just one hand (allowing her to open doors and do other things). Being able to mount a light on home defense gun is EXTREMELY important. Having a laser on it also allows a person that shoots very little to hit what they want.
There are VERY few options for mounting a light/laser on a shotgun and most anyting worth using is pricey.
Doubt very seriously that I was going to be raped, and sure as hell wasn’t going to be murdered. Yeah, I’ll give you that he may have heard/seen something, but I kinda doubt it based on the time line. He was yanking away at the screen door as I was running to the shotgun and starting on the door when I racked it. I was at best 2~2 1/2 feet from him, so I have little doubt he heard “something”. Regardless as soon as the shotgun cycled, the door quit making noise and I heard him hit the railing on the way off the porch. Would I rely strictly on the “distinctive sound” to be the sole deterrent. No way. But given the alternative of shooting him as he trespassed, I’ll gladly take his departure instead. Would I have shot him. I like to think so, but fortunately for him, I’ll never know for sure.
The problem with the “shotgun chambering” theory is that you are making several assumptions. First, that the bad guy can hear you do it. Second, that they can recognize that sound as ONLY coming from a shotgun.
Again, we’re confusing things here. I never said that racking a round into a shotgun was going to end every fight.
The point, as I demonstrated with my SimFX examples and as No.6 relayed from personal experience, is that if the BG hears it and if the BG identifies the sound you may stave off what would otherwise become a violent encounter that could easily result in your incarceration, legal expenses, massive media attention, etc.
The same exact thing is true for using a laser. Do I count on the little red dot to induce compliance with every living being it touches? Of course not. But enough folks have seen it help gain compliance that I’m not going to ignore its usefulness.
I carry 124gr +p Gold Dots in my pistol. I’m sure you can find legitimate stories where someone was shot with one and it didn’t cause instantaneous cessation of hostility. Doesn’t mean my choice of ammo is bad just because it isn’t 100% effective.
I agree with you on all points. The house I was living in at the time was a wood frame house, wood clapboard exterior and questionable amount of insulation in the walls. I live in a brick/steel door house these days.
I’ve since sold the 870 and rely on my AR carbine for home protection and I really have my doubts that a bad guy would hear the charging handle cycle, since I always have a round chambered at night. Like I said in the post before, would I rely on the “distinctive sound”. No way.
On a side note, I sure will be glad when I can trade my 16" carbine that I’m using now for that 12" LMT SBR MRP that I’m getting from you. Check your PM if you would.
Check your PM if you would.