The Etiquette of Ordering Firearms Online

General General Discussion
21

The customer can decide if he wants to conduct business with me or not, but the customer does not get to dictate my markup. People think they should be able to order a Knights Rifle at dealer price from places in Shotgun News and pay no more than a $35 transfer fee. It’s absurd.

Now if it’s something I don’t have in inventory, be glad to special order anything, but there will be a markup, not a flat fee.

The exception is this.

If you are buying a gun from a private seller in another state and you need a FFL to complete the transaction, I charge $25 for that no matte what it is. If it’s a rusty old pump shotgun it’s $25 if it’s a super rare Luger it’s $25. That is because if you actually visited the seller in person you could conduct a private sale transaction with no FFL, you only need my FFL to ship across state lines and such. I did this all the time for collectors and was content to charge no more than $25 on stuff that had collector values in the thousands of dollars.

However, ordering from online wholesalers, where you need to BE a FFL to qualify for “dealer pricing” is quite another matter. You know what my dealer price is and I know what my dealer price is and we both know nobody has paid MSRP since the invention of the internet. I charge somewhere between a 10-15% markup depending on the item, how regular the customer is and if he’s a decent guy or a pain in my ass.

But the important thing is that negotiation happens prior to anything being ordered and sent to me. Used to run into this from time to time in FL and since it wasn’t an order I placed and didn’t authorize I had the distributor issue a call tag to be returned to them on their dime and then they and the guy who ordered it can work out they issue “they created” in terms of refunding credit cards and who is responsible for what.

Anyone who without warning would just order a gun on my license and have it sent to me thinking they will tell me what they are willing to pay is not a customer I want or a person I want to help.

There are literally dozens of “transfer FFLs” in every zip code that operate that way and each one has a plan to own the market by being the lowest cost in town, just one problem the volume doesn’t exist. People buy groceries every week, they don’t buy guns every week. So unless the FFL is literally doing it for beer money, most run themselves out of business and don’t renew. And every year there is a dozen new FFLs with the same plan to undercut the market and own it. It never works.

I charge what I need to charge to be in operation continuously. If I charge too much, I won’t get enough sales to stay in business, if I charge too little I won’t make enough money to cover operating costs. And sometimes that can be a thin damn line and if you think you can just try and sell the same guns WalMart has for sale that line is non existent.

I tend to specialize in military firearms and NFA stuff and making sure people have a stress free first time NFA transfer and helping them buy things like a Colt 6920 vs. Springfield Saint and explaining the difference gives me something of a niche market. People are willing to spend a little more if you help them save money they were going to spend on really stupid stuff when a much better option exists.

It’s sorta a crazy business model, but if I care about them as a gun buyer and help them get the best things for their needs vs. trying to unload a bunch of crap I have in back that never sold very well and they respect me as a business owner who is trying to operate a profitable business so that I will still be in business next year, it all sort of works out.

22

I’ve forgotten how many transfers I’ve done the past 10 years - it’s a lot.

When I lived in the “big city” I used one source for 99% of my transfers and that was a “XX Gun and Pawn” stocking 90% used guns only. I would always give them a head’s up on the transfer, and they charged $25. Very rare I buy anything not new (lowers and complete guns) to be transferred, but I’d still extend the courtesy to see if they had or could get the item I wanted. The vast majority of the time no, but if yes, based on their business model, rarely could they compete with price and they’d actually tell me, “you can get a better price, you should do the transfer…” They understood it was a decent profit for them to charge $25 to essentially spend 10 minutes to log the transfer in their books and process the 4473 when I picked it up. In my state, with a CCW no background check is necessary. I’d still buy ammo and accessories from them and had a great customer relationship.

I’ve since moved to a “small town” and things are a little different. I’m very lucky to have a great small LGS that stocks mostly new stuff. Now, I check with them first for my purchases.

While I’ve done only transfers with them, they give me the “good guy” discount and, for the most part, they are competitive with online prices.

What I am losing on is the tax break but I’m not paying the shipping or transfer fee. Overall, yes I’m paying a little more (not a ton) but I’m cool with that because I’m supporting their local business and I’m truly getting awesome customer service - like old days service. Recently bought a Vortex Razor 1-6 through them. Ended up defective. Made mention of it to them, they said let us handle it, and they brokered the return and new scope directly with their Vortex rep. It was awesome. Try getting that service with a box store or chain.

If I do transfers with them it’s because they can’t get something I want or the price difference is so big they understand. But I always ask them first and if a transfer is the best option, they are or made aware and they’ll gladly take my $20 for their transfer fee.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

23

I have a confession to make. I collect stripped lowers. I buy one pretty much every month. I send them to my LGS/range, and they don’t require a heads up. They call me when its in and they don’t give me any guff. I pay the fee and they give me like 6 free range passes.

24

Like others have said. If you are listed as a pre-approved dealer on PSA’s website, to me and others, you have given authorization for transfers from them. If you want a contact ahead of time, you shouldn’t be on that list.

25

There were fewer and fewer of these guys before my state passed a BS dealer licensing bill - they’ll be non-existent in a year.

26

I’m not a brick / mortar ffl & focus primarily on consignments…also work directly with a couple of locally owned retail gun shops to consign their more unique items that are better suited for web sales and/or do not want them heavily fondled. We talk biz often…In general the gun market is in a slump Doc & likely contributed to his crustiness. The profit margins on guns is already a low points\ game, combine this along with $$$$ required to carry the needed inventory eats at them constantly & especially when biz is crawling. To get better margins the retailer is constantly balancing the buy-in vs capital it takes to have the inventory on hand and will they turn in a timely manner. Being a onesy / twosy buyer, I simply cannot touch pricing against larger retailers & my cost through disty’s is almost always higher than I can find on gunbroker. A retailer who commits to $50k a year from Browning doesn’t get the same pricing who buys $250k. My guys know I’m not out to get any of their OTC biz & want to mess with consignment. We throw each other business & has been working out well.

I too charge $25 for transfers but my retailers are close to double as they too prefer to sell in house & use this to discourage. More than half of my guys who have firearms shipped are generally buying clean used firearms of of older designs no longer produced / collectable pieces. I’ve only had the no warning of shipment a couple times & really only worry about the ding-dong delivery guy to leave the package at the door even when it has substantial Ins coverage, so yeah I like to get a tracking. Your ffl clearly handled it wrong as he lost a customer not only for transfers but likely OTC from you…while I completely understand his side of things he let his emotions fail him over a relatively inexpensive gun.

27

Like I said, I had asked for permission and had used them several times before, so I had come to think it was okay without asking this time. Plus, as someone pointed out, when you agree to be linked to these online distributors you kind of expect people to be sending stuff to you. It’s like: If you don’t want to be an Uber driver, don’t be an Uber driver. But once you are part of their network you have to expect customers to use you through Uber’s system.

The guy literally made thirty bucks to make a phone call. My lawyer doesn’t even charge that kind of money.

28

There used to be a dealer I frequented that, if you ordered online and had it sent to him, he would add whatever markup would bring the gun to his normal price.

He’s no longer in business.

Just sayin’. :slight_smile:

29

Many online retailers add the FFL’s they receive to lists of “FFLs on file” without any authorization to do so, nor any expressed or implied agreement for a continuing transfer relationship. When my FFLs send their license or I send on their behalf to an online vendor or another shop that is a license shared for that transaction.

I would make no assumptions, and use the property and privileges of others only with an abundance of courtesy.

30

That would be a completely different situation and you are of course correct.

31

FFLs go out of business for all kinds of reasons. And regardless of how you or I may feel, this again is the reality.

If I charge too much, I won’t get enough sales to stay in business, if I charge too little I won’t make enough money to cover operating costs.

Also a guy who owns a hardware store, has a gun range or pawn shop AND has a FFL setup is going to be able to exist on smaller margins than a guy who is just a FFL. 10% is not a dramatic markup for most firearms and the volume to sustain it just doesn’t exist in most places.

Trust me, if I could make more money by selling at 5% markups, I know how math works. But at some point it becomes Arkansas economics where you “sell below cost but make it up in volume.”

Obviously works both ways on both sides of the counter, if you can find the same thing $40 cheaper for no extra effort on your part, I can’t imagine why you’d pay more. There have been a couple years where I realized I bought so few guns for myself it would have been cheaper to have them run through a transfer dealer than maintain a FFL.

32

I take your point. When I’m next in the area, I’ll stop in the pawn shop and ask what they prefer.

33

My transfers are through a FFL whose business is primarily NFA and who does not sell conventional firearms. I always send him an email prior to buying online as a courtesy. I also pick up as soon as possible after he notifies me my order is in and take all my packaging with me.

If I could find LMT or Sionics or equivalent lowers at any of the gun stores here I would not order online, but they all seem to prefer to stock hundreds of Anderson, Ruger or S&W lowers.

Andy

34

In that case I agree with you.

35

Companies such as Bud’s and Palmetto State Armory have lists of preferred FFL’s, but of course they do LOTS of firearms shipping. It does make it a bit more streamlined for the consumer when they ship direct to your local FFL without the buyer (in the case of Bud’s, anyway) having to do anything more. In other cases, a “heads up” call to the FFL is desirable.