The Etiquette of Ordering Firearms Online

General General Discussion
1

Obviously if you don’t possess an FFL yourself you have to arrange to have a firearm shipped to a dealer to do the NICS check and give you the okey-dokey, usually with a fee, of course.

I’ve maybe ordered a firearm online and had it shipped to one of two LGS’s as many as five times in three years. At first I checked with each LGS in advance and got the okay from them before doing it. The last time I did this was in January or February.

This last time, though, I assumed it was okay due to previous experiences and ordered one of the S&W Shields from Palmetto State Armory and had it shipped without giving the LGS advance notice.

Holy Hurt Butt!

The reception I got was, to say the least, palpably frosty. True, the dealer had a Shield 2.0 in his display case for around $450 and probably would have preferred to sell me that one, but the one I ordered was a Gen 1. Not the same thing. I pointed that fact out to him and got a lecture on how he was against online ordering, and we should all support the local guy. He said it wasn’t fair he couldn’t touch that $249.95 price tag. I agreed, but said, “Couldn’t you order some of these for your inventory and just mark them up $50-100? You’d still save on shipping by ordering several and you’d still make a profit. Heck, if you had one for $300 I’d have probably just bought it and avoided the hassle of having to wait. It would have been almost the same as what I did with your transfer fee.”

He mumbled some excuse as to why PSA wouldn’t give him the same deal, and I insisted, “I’d bet your credit card spends just as fast as mine. I don’t see why they wouldn’t send you a dozen of these at the same price just because you’re an FFL.” He insisted that wasn’t the case and I didn’t press the issue.

What shocked me was the sudden cold shoulder for ordering online and paying the local guy his fee to pick it up. Outlets like Davidson’s openly advertise this practice, and I’ve ordered from Impact Guns, Palmetto State Armory, and a Gunsamerica vendor and never got so much as an unfriendly look from the local guy–until this time.

Is there such a slump in the gun industry that local retailers are feeling the pain and aren’t so friendly toward not making a couple hundred bucks profit on a single gun?

Like I said, I’ve done this four or five times in the last three years and this is the first time I can remember getting a lecture and a cold shoulder for having done it.

I certainly don’t think I’ll have anything else shipped to that dealer. He’s kind of out of my way anyway and he may not see any more of my business, period. I’m guessing this particular dealer just suddenly has a bug up his ass for online ordering, but I thought I’d put out the feelers and see if anyone else is getting this kind of reception.

Anybody else experiencing this?

2

As an FFL I will say this.

If we sign up to be on PSA’s website we have to agree to take any shipments, same with Buds, Brownells, etc. It’s the name of the game.

You do support the local guy by paying a transfer fee, if not, then his fee isn’t high enough. My customers actually have told me before when I need to kick it up a few bucks.

I appreciate the heads up, but I don’t expect them.

He should know a 1.0 and 2.0 aren’t the same gun.

I have ordered inventory for resale at PSA retail pricing when they are significantly below wholesale, for instance when they were selling M&P full size for $350 I stocked up, because they normally cost me $425 each.

Sorry you were treated that way. Retail will die if they don’t adapt fast to e commerce… gun stores are no different.

3

I’m waiting for the day FFLs just set up a kiosk-type store front and only do transfers.

They encourage online sales and are willing to help the customer find and order one from a retailer for a small fee on top of the transfer price. The local FFLs can compete for whatever that transfer price should be.

I’m sure someone will come along and say this isn’t a true dealer. The days of small businesses holding small-margin mass-produced inventory are ending.

4

The guy I have used for most of my transfers runs a hardware store but apparently does the FFL transfer thing as just a side gig or something. He doesn’t maintain any inventory of guns in stock, so couldn’t care less about how cheap I got something off of CDNN or wherever. I’m also a regular there for non-gun purchases, which probably helps.
I usually check with him beforehand, just as a courtesy (although when I had to jump on a killer deal that I stumbled on quickly, a couple times I did order first then “ask” him at the earliest opportunity). Then when the item arrives I show up, he does the NICS then I just pay the cashier up front $25 on my way out the door.
He was out for several months due to knee surgery back last winter, so when Brownells had a blem Retro lower sale I grabbed one and had it sent to another shop I also frequent. The guy was fine with it, although the fact Retro lowers aren’t something he normally stocks might or might not have had something to do with it, because I have heard of shops being resistant to doing a transfer on something you bought online but they have in the display case for $300 more.

5

I don’t get this. He made money off of you for doing nothing other than fill out a form and lost no inventory. It’s not like you were going to buy the gun from him anyway. Some money vs. no money - the choice should be obvious.

6

I’d find another lGS/FFL that isn’t a retard.

If he isn’t making money off of a transfer he is retarded and should change his fee.

If he doesn’t want to make money for doing essentially nothing other than accepting a form filled out by you, doing the NICS check and faxing his FFL license to another gun shop, he is a retard.

7

This is my attitude. In the past when I’ve done this I’ve turned dealers on to firearms they didn’t know they’d sell and my actions prompted them to carry what I ordered in inventory.

Glad to hear the responses I’m getting. I won’t use that dealer again.

8

Many do. Maybe not kiosk based, but xfer only, no retail.

For OP, it seems your LGS does not really want to be in the xfer business, they only do it when they have nothing to sell. I would get a new LGS.

9

I’m there already. I run it as a business, as required by the ATF, out of my retail store. I don’t need a pile of expensive low margin product taking up space that I can fill with higher margin product that doesn’t require any expertise to sell. I do special orders through Davidson’s, Aero and a couple other places, but those are infrequent.

For a minute I thought you were talking about me :smile: I’m a hardware store as well.

10

I’m seeing this attitude more and more. I have 2 FFLs, the only 2 (in my state for handguns), within 45 miles of me. Neither of them will receive a shipment from a non-FFL, which is annoying. Despite that, I still use the one for transfers or new purchases. His prices are usually close to or better than anything I can find online for new, anyway, but if it’s within $20-30 of online, I give him the business. He’s never complained really about transfers, he just asks that I check with him first on a price if it’s something new, which is only fair. However, the other FFL has started hassling customers about ordering online and doing the transfer through him. Mind you, his transfer fee is $30, whereas the guy I normally use is $15 for long guns/$20 for handguns (my state has a $5 background check included in that). This same dealer would have had your Shield 1.0 at $425+, despite him being able to order it from a distributor for $275. No way I’m paying $100+ more for something like that. I don’t want to lose another FFL, but that guy is doing everything he can to ruin his business and I can’t say I’ll be sorry to see him go.

I’m seeing more and more dealers around here go the “no transfers from non-FFL” route and that has become a huge pain. As long as he has a DL/CCL beforehand and with the shipment, I honestly can’t think of a legitimate legal reason for it, other than perhaps a very slim chance of civil liability. It’s not an ATF rule.

I really miss the days of my truly “local” FFL whose shop was next to his house, would bend over backwards for a transfer, and give you first dibs on stuff that came in he knew you would like…the good old days.

11

I can understand the “competing with the local FFLs inventory stock” but as others have said, he isn’t out any money or loss from his inventory. I would find someone else with an FFL.

12

Yeah, I’m done with that guy.

Just for shits and giggles I called the other FFL I’ve used occasionally for online orders.

I described the situation to him.

Know what he said?

“So and so dealer on the other side of town has been ordering those Shields from Palmetto State Armory for months and marking them up 50 bucks. I can’t even do that with my overhead.”

13

I tend to use a kitchen table FFL for transfers. The guy I use probably does 15 direct to customer transfers for every gun he orders and sells retail, and he’s happy for the transfer business.

14

My LGS doesn’t charge for transfers, It’s basically a high end outdoor retail store. Management acknowleges they can’t compete with online sales.

They “request that you buy $30 worth of ammo or other merchandise from them” but many time’s after the paper works done they just say.

Don’t worry about it, wish me a good day…

I do shop there quite often though.

15

Can you currently get an ffl without a retail store?

The guy I use is a plumber who has a class 3 license and a website. But it’s really just his house. He charges $30 and has actually given me a heads up on places to get a deal before or even verified if a place was legit.

I support my local GS by buying reloading supplies and small things. He used to be more competitive but is now significantly more expensive than what you can get online for guns.

16

Bad form. At least make a courtesy call asking permission prior to using their license.

17

There was a setup just about like this here in the South Hills. And his transfers were HALF the price of local gun shops - a third of what the chains, like Gander Mountain charged!

Business was so good… it grew into a LGS!

18

I use “Scotties” here in DEnver for transfers. They have very little stock, I think they may live off of transfers. Don’t know who owns it, but the guy who runs it is a Vietnam vet and a good guy. If he recognizes you, you get a discount. Haven’t done much lately in transfers.

A range with FFL transfers would seem to be the way to make money. Selling guns seems like running a car dealership, the new sales are a drop in the bucket compared to used cars and the service dept.

19

I’ve never given the pawn shop that I use for the majority of my transfer’s a head’s up. If they are listed with the place I’m buying from I expect it to be okay with them to get transfers from that place.

Likewise, if the business I’m buying from contacts the LGS for a copy of their FFL (which they have to do in order to ship it to them unless they have a current copy on file, IIRC) I figure them being contacted by the selling FFL serves as warning enough.

I like the guys at my LGS and usually am in there often enough to tell them I have a lower, or a surplus firearm coming. I do all other complete guns through the pawn shop.

Several years ago I had a discussion with the LGS and let them know that when I make an offer to them on a new firearm, I have already located it at a comparable price. What I didn’t tell them was that I give them a cushion of 2.00 bucks a mile plus a Jackson when I settle on the price I’ll pay them over a shop in another town. As a result, when I ask them ‘what’s your best price on this?’ they are forewarned.

I try to make sure I buy locally without cutting my throat - we buy about 1/2 our produce and meat from local shops - spend a little more for quality and to support local businesses. Likewise, I buy all my cleaning supplies and powder at the LGS. I used to buy my primers there, but after several trips to buy CCI primers and them not being in stock, I ordered 30,000 from PowderValley, in a couple months I’ll go in and tell the LGS I need 5,000 and try to keep primers in stock that way.

Hey, we’re all in this together.

20

I use a “tabletop” or “kitchen table” ffl.
Dude is drama free in the extreme, but still professional. Id try to find someone like that- with another full-time job…
Or just use the other guy.

Edit- I always give him a heads up when I order something.