I propose that the administration’s goal is war with Iran.
Here is why:
During the Facebook Revolution, we stood by and did nothing, because removing the hardliners would not allow us to start a war with Iran.
Despite decades of sanctions turning their economy into ruins, we propose a deal that lifts the sanctions, giving the hardliners a new lease on life.
The deal proposed has to be voted on by a Republican congress, that we can assume will not approve. Leaving only the dear leader’s favorite alternative: war.
The path to war is clear.
I doubt Obama is going to war with Iran. He is too busy running out the clock and playing golf. If we had wanted change in Iran we are going about it the wrong way. If we would have kept the sanctions in place and started to really hammer them with a way to allow free Internet that would have gotten the ball rolling.
As it was the sanctions alone hurt them badly and if we had kept the pressure up there was a good likely hood of an internal change of authority (coup). But that is all gone now and the hardliners are free and in the clear. They won and we along with our allies (Israel) and to a lesser extent Saudis lost.
Think of it like the cold war except instead of Russia it was Iran. If we didn’t have such giant limp wristed skirts in DC we might actually be able to a complies great things.
Exactly. How could anyone think Obama wants war? Our dear leaders favorite alternative is war? Since when, OP? Sure he loves bombing American citizens with drones and fighting off former U.S. Allies in Syria, but he’s no George W. Bush.
You know, the dear leader we had that got us into two actual wars.
I think for sure he has war on his mind but for the next one in office maybe ! so setting things up to become so bad we have very few options for the next leader in case its a republican so they can come back for the final kill and show how bad republicans are he kept us out they got us in
also I think he does want Israel gone
his idea of war is not to hurt the other side though IMHO his idea of war is to hurt OUR country and weaken it more and more
pretty easy game you play to loose by enough its a loss but trying to look like you are winning basically he is throwing the fight
It is going to an illogical extreme to assume these clowns have a foreign policy that can see more than two moves ahead of the other guy.
It isn’t Machiavellian planning at hand, it is just sheer incompetence.
Israel wants war with Iran, because they want to be the one and only, unchallenged power in the middle east. (To be precise, the current ruling government in Israel wants war with Iran - many ordinary Israelis don’t.)
Many US politicians are happy to do whatever Israel wants, for a variety of bad reasons.
Obama doesn’t want war with Iran, or much of anything to do with them. He has agendas greater than golf, but the current mideast “Great Game” isn’t high on his personal list. And it’s lower still because the UK is a player on our side and he despises the UK.
We might blunder into a war with Iran, but it won’t be because Obama wants it - it would be because Israel wants it and many US politicians put Israeli interests ahead of US interests.
Business Casual, what war has Obama gotten us into since he came into office? We’ve left Iraq and Afghanistan. (Save for some SF folks. One of whom was killed yesterday, RIP) We’re not putting a quarter million men in Iraq to deal with ISIS, just a few bombing sorties every week. Same for Libya and Pakistan and Yemen.
I’d just like to know where you get off saying:
only the dear leader’s favorite alternative: war.
Maybe you know things that I don’t?
I’ve yet to figure out why this is so. While we do many, many things for Israel…what do they do for us? I don’t mean militarily. I know that can be quite impractical (think 1991 Gulf War) but why are we so quick to get on our knees and put Israel in our mouths?
I’ve heard a lot of fairly religious people use the Bible to explain it
Right after WWII, I have no doubt that there was a bit of guilt by us for not helping more during WWII with strategic bombing to take out the support for the Death Camps.
I would say the pol’s might have used it at one time to garner votes from the Jewish voters here in the US.
During the Cold War I feel it was used to counter the Soviet support of various Arab Nations.
I do think much of the above is a bunch of hooey for the most part and although I wouldn’t throw them away, I would sit down and rethink our support and negotiate a bit better with them. Blind support for those who do not act in our best interest at times is foolish.
Veto of override. Deal goes forward. Rabid hawks find something else to fearmonger about.
The sanctions were gone in any case. Our actual allies, ie., not Egypt, Saudi, and Israel, are done with the brinksmanship.
The best chance for war just went out the window. Complex deals that keep both parties engaged are the opposite of that, you know. The endgame here is ten years of GOP bitching about how Iran isn’t cooperating, no violations that would justify the re-imposition of sanctions and no development of an Iranian weapon.
Oh, eff me running. You mean the draft dodger, who along with his cabal of likeminded draft dodgers started something, with no end plan in sight, and then didn’t have the guts to call on the Nation to do what it needed to do to actually win? You mean that guy?
I’m pro-Israel, just not much use for the Israeli Government.
As a Christian, understanding who Jesus is and what His life and death on the Cross meant, I have no reason to support Israel because of Old Testament interpretations.
I do support a Jewish state simply because the Jews have been hounded and persecuted everyplace they have settled. Not a big supporter of militant Zionism, though.
In terms of our post-war foreign policy, we pretty much chose an unstable Middle-East in order to curtail Soviet influence in the area.
My problem with Israel is that they continually fail to acknowledge, even in the smallest way, that they owe their continued existence to us. In every major conflict they’ve been in since 1954, America has been their supply train. When they were in danger of going Winchester during the Six-Day War, it was a non-stop sky train of C-141’s, depleting our European war stocks, that kept them in business.
I don’t expect them to suck our dicks, but I would like to see a little cooperation.
Go to the library like I did, check out both pro-Israel and anti-Israel histories of the Middle-East, read histories of United States foreign policy, make your mind up from that, not dogma.
I think some are here to try to stir the pot and are just progressives just like the 9/11 hijackers going to strip clubs and stuff the left does seem to like to ACT like a conservative but then show another side ?
sadly the current young generation has fallen to the progressives teachings in schools also ?
so very few even here no any real history of our country and it often shows big time when they talk about things !
Here’s what I posted: "Wow, I can’t believe how many here are anti-Israel.
Is anyone here pro-Israel, besides me?"
Your reply:
“Go to the library like I did, check out both pro-Israel and anti-Israel histories of the Middle-East, read histories of United States foreign policy, make your mind up from that, not dogma.”
You’re a bit hasty with presumption that I posted what I posted because I’m under the sway of dogma.
I’m not.
My knowledge comes from almost 70 years of knowing Israel.
Yours comes from reading.
For reasons beyond me, other than some sort of liberal guilt/angst (even among liberal Jews) many progressives hate Israel.
I find it baffling that liberals prefer terrorists over Jews.
Endgame is this: UN lifts sanctions (IIRC, the UN has already voted to do so), GOP-controlled Congress refuses to sign off on the treaty, Russia, China, and Europe get to make bank working with Iran and we lose Iran as a potential regional ally for another thirty or forty years (French companies are already getting ready to set up shop in Iran - it’s probable that Russia and China are doing likewise).
Chuck Schumer has come out against the Iran treaty and has said that he wouldn’t have done so if he didn’t believe that Obama had the votes to pass it.
So given this, the more likely endgame is that the US gains a useful regional ally to oppose ISIS and greatly reduce Russian and Chinese influence in the region - both important considerations in our strategic shift to the Pacific and the current Putinist Cold War. And, perhaps, by acting as war daddy to both Iran and Saudi, can bring stability to the middle eastern cold war between those two.
Kosher sausage is obviously delicious. And sex isn’t gay when it’s done by two straight men whose religions forbid homosexual relations.
I don’t think of myself as being pro-Israel, but I do think of myself as being a zionist. I support Israel’s right to exist and their existence as a secular, liberal democratic republic. I do not give them full, unquestioning, unwavering support in their every endeavor, particularly not when it comes to violating treaties and international law and responding to rocket attacks that hit open desert by blowing up a UN-chartered school filled with teachers and students.
My observation is that most folks, not saying you, haven’t really vetted their stances on a lot of issues, the issue of Israel being one of them.
I’m not the sharpest pencil in the box, but I am sharp enough to know that you ought to look at both sides of an issue. Research, AKA reading, is one way to do that. Although I do fully intend to visit Israel to walk where Jesus walked before I die, I haven’t the inclination to move there.
There is a difference between hating Israel and not liking the things the very young Israeli government has done. I imagine their government is nearly as dysfunctional as ours.
And, on the other hand, after calling me out about dogma, you go on to label anyone who does not agree with your views as a progressive/liberal/supporter of terrorism.
In a nutshell, I support Israel’s right to exist as a Nation, and the Nation I pledge allegiance to also supports that right.
Maybe after 70 years of knowing Israel as you have, it’s time to try to take a look at Israel from other folks point of view. You’ll still love Israel, but could maybe see ways to make the U.S. and Israel alliance more a two-way street.