By Garand Thumb
[video=youtube_share;nBY2lZlmIEI]https://youtu.be/nBY2lZlmIEI[/video]
Great video.
I like GT but didn’t watch it. The M4A1 killed more bad guys in relatively recent times than the M16/M16A1 did in Vietnam?
More rounds fired in Nam. Probably 3% actually aimed at the enemy.
20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan vs 10 in Vietnam. Not to mention Syria and Africa…
Potential targets were much, much more plentiful and abound in Vietnam along with a ton more friendlies deployed at any given time.
The VC are the most equivalent to the Iraqi insurgents and Taliban, but we did not face an equivalent to the NVA in the GWOT. Using just ground forces, we lost 51,000 KIA in Vietnam (38,000 Army and 13,000 USMC). We haven’t lost nearly that many (thank God) in the ME or Africa. The VC and NVA lost (conservatively) close to 1 million KIA, low-end estimates are 500K. The majority were probably from artillery and bombing, but when you look at our casualties also the cost is clear. Since the M16 was the most-issued weapon by our forces, and allowing for factoring out 7.62NATO arms (M14 and M60), I’d say the Black Rifle alone killed a couple hundred thousand enemy. Factoring out air and artillery and 7.62 in the GWOT do you guys really think we deep-sixed several hundred thousand with the M4A1 alone?
There is no way the M4 has killed more people than the M16. Remember for a good part of the beginning of GWOT the USMC primarily used the M16 as well as several units in the Army.
I think what he means by the “deadliest” is it’s capabilities, not exactly the actual numbers of E-KIA.
Valid point, didn’t think of it that way. If you factor in M855A1 ammunition then I would agree it is “deadlier” (more lethal?) than the M16/A1/A4 with either M193 or M855.
Easily. Not to even get into civilian law enforcement using it for a good 10 as well. It is just around more, used more, and made better, fielded by better troops.
Key M4 upgrades according to the video:
M4 Feed Ramps
H2 Buffer
Extractor Spring
SOCOM Barrel Profile
14.5" Barrel Length balances multiple factors well
Magpul Anti-Tilt Magazine Followers
Magpul PMAG
Improved Ammunition - Mk262, Mk318, M855A1
Not a surprising list to most people here, but a good reminder of the small but meaningful improvements that make the platform great today.
So the M4A1 platform has put more enemy in the dirt than the M1 Garand? Garand in service through out all of WWII, Korea and into the early part of Viet Nam (1965). I guess there is really no absolute way to know, but call me skeptical.
Yeah, but I consider the comment par for the click bait youtube course. If anything, its one of the more honest click bait comments, because it can be debated endlessly.
True.
Did he say it has most kills or it is the deadliest. I watch his stuff but that was long winded and it was on while I was mixing a Manhattan on my day off, so I didn’t catch everything.
Elcans are cool though.
He doesn’t define deadliest in the vid. I took it to mean the most capable rifle.
I’m pretty sure you’ve all put more thought into this already than he did.
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I wonder how many were wounded, but not killed, due to medical technology. Can’t recall if it was WWII or Korea when disease ceased killing more personnel than combat.
I’d agree
I’ll bet the springfield from the civil war has more than the Garand even
GT said wide spread dissemination of these upgrades took 10 years. 2003 to 2013