I also don’t know of any credible trainer out there who’s teaching single shots COM. I don’t know Jim personally, though I’ve conversed with him extensively in the past, and he’s a pretty knowledgeable guy who is honestly passionate about teaching his students to win gunfights. I THINK the MAIN point of his “argument” is that what most people consider “Center of Mass” isn’t adequate to ensure a fight-stopping hit.
What I took away from this article is something I whole-heartedly agree with - if you want the fight to stop NOW, you have to be more precise, rather than less. Making the banging noise very fast isn’t the answer. Making rapid, PRECISE hits is.
I know LOTS of people, including a lot of the staff at FLETC, who are enamored of “reactive” shooting with “flash” or no sight picture - in other words, speed at nearly any cost. The targets they use to “train” this technique have an ENORMOUS “five” ring - basically base of the throat down through the nipples to about belly-button level. This is absurdity at its finest, where we changed the qualification target to ensure that results from the new shooting technique were effective!
I know Jim’s a big fan of the .45 ACP, and I think he’s a little over-confident in its ability, based on his “2-3 45s = 5-8 9mms” math, but, we all have our biases, so I’ll give him that one.
You also have to give credit to a guy who consistently concealed carries TWO full size 1911s - that is dedication!
I think we’re getting off topic here and into some cliche territory. As a civilian, my intentions are not to shoot a threat until I know he’s dead. If I need to shoot I am going to keep shooting until the BG is no longer a threat. Whether he lives or dies is immaterial.
The rules may be different for those with different “missions.”
I have encountered it personally, but it was a long time ago and the guy saying it wasn’t much of an instructor.
Every other instructor I’ve ever had has taught pulling the trigger until the hostile actions of the bad guy cease. If that’s one shot, fine. If it’s a dozen, so be it.
The whole X number of shots with caliber Y thing is fruitier than Elton John skipping through a strawberry patch for a number of reasons, not least of which is the idea that people are going to be counting rounds fired in a close range gunfight. Handguns are handguns, and with modern ammo differences in caliber matter less than they ever have in the history of firearms. Whether you’re packing a 9mm or a .45, the prescription is the same: Shoot the bad guy until he stops doing whatever it is he was doing to make you shoot him in the first place. Then see if he has any friends around who are in need of similar treatment.
Ditto. Considering that Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness by Urey Patrick came out in 1989 (an excellent resource to be thankful for), I’m not seeing anything new here.
In all my research I’ve come to the conclusion that the accepted norm, with modern and competent instructors on this matter, is dynamic. “Shoot to the ground” is not a new concept. Those preaching one shot stops, parroting magical calibers, and clinging to archaic methods, I would say, are the minority, not the majority and have been for a good ~10-15+ years. Thankfully there are just enough of “them” out there to remind us all to stay on the ball with training and always strive for more, lest we fall into their category. I’m still young so I might be incorrect, however it seems to me the training industry as a whole has completely transformed over the past 10-15 years…significantly for the better. Hell I, for one, feel fortunate at all the high quality training opportunities and training resources available to us.
They don’t teach center mass aiming for quicker stops, THEY TEACH CENTER MASS TO GIVE YOU A MARGIN OF ERROR ON THE TARGET!!
You aim at the center of whatever your target presents you as a target, if it is just a portion of his head then thats what you aim at the center of, for a MArgin of error to overcome trigger jerking under stress or if your target starts to move one or another you are still more likely to hit something on them anyway.
THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET OR PLACE TO HIT FOR INSTANT STOPS EXCEPT THE CEREBRAL CORTEX!!
and the only thing I’ll add, that some of you might have already brought up, is that a B27 target type of COM generally corresponds to high abdomen, low thoracic hits, a suboptimal targeting area considering where the heart and great vessels are located (mid to high chest), so no wonder “COM” hits can be more ineffectual than good hits ought to be
If a man can continue the fight for 3-5 seconds with one in the heart, is there any question left in your mind about what to do?
I’ve not been at this for as long as most of you, so keeping it simple is my only recourse. Until the gun is out of the BG’s hand, there is danger. While there is danger, the fight is ongoing.
i don’t know that I buy the 1-2 with .45, 5-8 with 9mm thing, etc…
go ahead and shoot your 1-2 with .45…when the guy is still shooting back you can start shooting again…i’ll just keep shooting my 9mm until he’s down or slide lock…at which point i’ll reload as fast as my old, slow rearend can, and start shooting again…
While the dimensional physics of the fact that a .45cal bullet is wider than a 9mm bullet can’t be denied, the difference in application with modern JHP’s is negligible.
Though he seems to initially say you should shoot until the threat is gone (Shoot until the target changes shape or is on fire), by quantitatively measuring the calibers against each other, and saying I need to shoot someone once with the mighty .45, and five times with a 9mm to achieve the same effect, he has highlighted his personal biases and makes me believe he is less progressive then he would have us believe…
There’s nothing wrong wth teaching center of mass shots as long as it is one in the proper context. You way not have the luxury of having a UCOM to aim at based on the situation. How many of us can honestly say that they can see the UCOM of a BG at 300-meters with an unpowered RDS? JM2CW.
I find this discussion quite entertaining considering that even experienced LEOs involved in a gunfight frequently cannot recall how many shots they fired.
Ya’ got a point there Howardcohondas…IT’S ALL ACADEMIC UNTIL YOU HAVE TO PERSONALLY PUT TORPEDOES IN THEIR BOILER ROOM AND THEY GO DOWN!!
There really is no such thing as true fight stopping power in ANY handgun round…except maybe a .500 S&W. Any hangun instructor worth the money he was paid will tell you this, the power factor just isn’t there for handguns.
Thats why even Clint Smith says “A handgun is used to fight your way to a rifle you never should have put down in the first place!!!”
I’m still young so I might be incorrect, however it seems to me the training industry as a whole has completely transformed over the past 10-15 years…significantly for the better. Hell I, for one, feel fortunate at all the high quality training opportunities and training resources available to us.