TAX TIME!!!!!!!!!! help me work out the specifics of my build

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

Ok tax season is coming back around and the wife finally said I could splurge on an ar. A few things are set in stone for this build…

16" Upper
Mid length
Chrome Lined

Now I want a high quality ar-15 I could trust my families/my life to in case of a shtf/Katrina situation… Here is what I have planned so far…

Stripped lower (no specific brand) $150 including transfer
Palmetto state armory Moe lower build kit $150
BCM 16" middy $400
Magpul Moe hand guard $40
BCM BCG auto mpi etc $140
Magpul mbuis $60
Magpul pmags $75

Total: $1025

Now for the crossroads, with this being a shtf rifle I was thinking about piston systems. So this is where it starts having me think twice.

Should I just get an Adams arms conversion kit?
Should I just get a complete spikes tactical upper?
Should I consider purchasing a Cmmg piston upper?
What about a Blackthorne piston conversion?
Should POF uppers be considered?

My question is for the amount I am spending is there any better options out there? I have about $1500 to blow on this gun and I want to be sure when zombies crest the hill I will be 1000% confident in my firearm. I was planning with the extra I could get an Adams arms piston conversion and call it a day but want to get the best quality/longevity/performance for my money. Any input/ideas are more than welcome; also any constructive criticism is also more than welcome.

2

Hello John.

For starters, let’s try using proper grammar and punctuation. Helps get you a better educated response.

3

I do apologize; I am by no means English major. I am just looking to this site for information and opinions on what I have planned so I do not make another DPMS Sportical type of purchase. I know there are a lot of very intelligent and knowledgeable people on this site that could definitely steer me in the right direction. I have made a quick revision to my original post I am sorry if it is still lacking…

4

To tell you the truth about Gas Pistons and DI

A) It has been, can be, and will be debated until the end of time.

B) I’m happy and many others are happy with D.I. there are those that aren’t, and prefer G.P.

C) The cost of anything that’s GP will pretty much double what you’re paying. Primary Weapons System being the exception.

I’d look at Bravo Company MFG, DD, LMT for Mid Length 16’’ Rifle.

I’ve got one, and am happy with it, study the chart, and you’ll do fine.

I wouldn’t and don’t ever plan on buying an AR in G.P.

That being said, I picked up my Arsenal SGL early this week. :smiley:

I just don’t think the G.P. in AR’s is worth the money, I think it’s still something though it’s progressed in major ways, it’s still got ways to go. I think honestly, if you’re going to spend 2,000-2,500 on an base AR, go ahead and get a dedicated gun like a SR-15E3 which IMHO is probably the best D.I. if not one of the best D.I. guns out there.

Or buy a SCAR if you want it to be Gas Piston. Because I feel it’s an Gas Piston gun, designed from the ground up to be a gas piston gun, with a bolt on rails, 3 lug heavier bolt, etc. Hootiewho did a great write up on it, ambi-dexterous.

That’s just what I’d do.

For the Lower, (I did almost the same thing you did, last year).

I’d buy a BCM Complete Lower with whatever you want on it, Blemed from G&R for about $250 starting, or if you don’t want blemmed $340.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM

Lifetime warranty, great product, (I’ve been happy with mine, my father’s happy with his, etc.) and a good dealer.

Those aren’t defective, just blemished.

ETA: I did not buy a blemished lower, as a side note, they weren’t available at the time.

Also, welcome to M4Carbine.net.

5

I personaly would stick to the 16" Midlength BCM upper over the spikes,and wouldn’t go with a piston conversion kit.

6

I knew there were both sides of the fence on the di/piston topic. My question is it worth ~$400? I have no personal experience with it and would like someone take? Do gas systems really clog that easy? Why spend that much on a lower? Sorry if that is a stupid question but I don’t see why I should spend $411 for the same (correct me if it’s not) thing I would get for $300?

7

Any particular reason why not on both spikes and piston?

8

Thank you all for the warm welcome as well.

9

BCM is top notch.Just do some searches on this forum and you find that most people prefer BCM over Spikes.They are also pretty close in price.Also do a search for the piston guns.Alot of experienced shooters will tell you to stick with the D.I system.

10

You already have the BCM Middy - odds are that will outrun anybody’s piston system as-is, let alone be much cheaper.

That list as you had it in the original post is an OUTSTANDING one. Stick with that. I just helped a friend build that exact setup, and he’s extremely happy with it. You’ve done an excellent job so far, stick with that.

Start thinking about which sights (iron, glass), and light you want for it.

11

http://www.slip2000.com/art-swat2.html

The only reason I clean my AR as much as I do is because I shoot Wolf Ammo (because I’m cheap), and you’ll get stuck cases.

I clean it about every 3-500 rounds to avoid stuck cases.

I mean.

That article,

http://www.vikingtactics.com/images/article_pdfs/M4-M4A1_Reliability_Issues.pdf

http://www.defensereview.com/the-big-m4-myth-fouling-caused-by-the-direct-impingement-gas-system-makes-the-m4-unreliable/

These articles, and others that are out there.

Honestly, I came to a simple conclusion, I’ve never fired a Gas Piston AR, honestly, I haven’t, but… frankly, I’ve had in probably the over 1,000 ish rounds I’ve fired through my BCM Midlength AR (Finished it in Late July), I’ve had 1 stuck case (See wolf ammo), I’ve had 2 bullets be smashed into the rear of the cartridge because the magazines were letting the bullets go too early, so I changed all the followers to magpul enhanced followers, corrected it and maybe 2 or 3 user related stoppages.

I’ve let several people fire it, one didn’t seat a magazine correctly and I cringed as it hit a pavement floor, one rode the charging handle to close and guess what (I told him to hit the bolt release, but big deal, who cares, he’s a new shooter, better they enjoy the experience than be hounded), the bullet got stuck on the feed ramp.

I think I had one or two bullets get bent at the casing neck, with those followers above (I stopped firing it that day once it pushed a bullet back into the cartridge, I did not want it to chamber and fire… I felt that was negligent, until I could test it and verify)

None of those I can attribute to the gun. Magazines, ammo and users.

That’s been my honest experience. I’ve never used a solvent in it, but I have wiped off excess carbon, used a bore brush, and Slip 2000 whenever I’ve cleaned it, and before I took it shooting.

AR’s function dry, they function well lubricated.

That’s been my experience anyway, those articles are from people who are much more experienced than myself.

12

As far as optics go I will be using the irons (mbuis and fsp) for a while as I want to get proficient with them before I splurge on rds and a magnifier. also it was hard enough explaining why I needed $1500 for a gun to the wife, I don’t even want to imagine how challenging it would be to explain that I need another $750-$1200 for a scope.

13

BWT- Thank you very much for those articles. They really put it in perspective on how reliable the di system is even in the most adverse conditions. I think that has for one cemented BCM in my parts list and gave me the ~$400 I was going to use on the piston conversion an be used on either ammo or a rds, maybe a cheaper suppressor?

14

Yeah BCM is gtg. And the Di system is just fine. In the October 2010 issue of swat magazine they ran 26,245 rounds through a BCM EAG carbine before they cleaned it. At the writing they had 31,165 rounds through it. In the July 2010 issue of swat they had a colt 6940 with 15,600 rounds on it without cleaning. It finally had a blowout at 17,600.

You won’t have a problem as long as you use quality part’s. Good luck with your build and have fun.

P.s you can take some of that extra cash you saved and get a BCM bolt with the ionbond finish for just a little more.

15

I’ll make it really easy. Get a Colt 6920. They are going for around 1100.00 right now. Get a good sling and a light, some mags and ammo and then practice with it. If possible get some training.

Don’t worry about optics or any other stuff. Stay away from the piston shenanigans.

16

Well, I see you have pretty much decided, but I would like to add one anecdotal story. I was with two friends the other week, they are brothers. One bought a Stag DI gun the other bought a Stag piston gun. The guns are pretty much stock save for the optics. They are both into this KISS thing. At any rate we were at the range, and they started burning through mags at about the same pace to see which rifle would choke first. Both guns had been lubed at the beginning and that was it. Both guns were lubed with CLP. After about 15 mags each, both guns were still functioning… Neither gun choked, however, we all expected the piston gun to be cooler and cleaner… not so. The piston gun was just as dirty and nasty as the DI gun. I could not tell the difference.

I personally would take the DI AR every time, just because there are fewer moving parts.

As an after thought, I would like to say, we were not trying to kill either of these rifles. The pace was not really fast, meaning they were not just burning through the ammo. They were actually trying to hit the target. The point I was trying to make is they were on the same magazine count through the whole thing so that each gun had the same number of rounds through it at the end.

As I said… anecdotal, take it for what it’s worth. Have fun and enjoy your rifle.

17

Excellent choice on the upper. Bcm bcg and charging handle good choices too. Keep your fixed front sight post. Get a complete LMT or BCM lower half instead of a hodgepodge of parts. Avoid the piston nonsense. Piston kits are a total waste of money. Get a better rear sight than the mbus and a sling and a light. Shoot the thing and get some formal training from a respectable source. That will often change your outlook and needs/wants about your rifle. Have fun.

18

Take Iraqgunz advice. Best response in the entire thread.

19

What is the advantage of ionbond?

20

What about my choices puts it “sub” colt? I was thinking if anything my specs put me above colt. $1100 is more than what I have listed in my spikes/bcm build. Also I am getting moe gear as well, I will be adding a good sling to the list.