Taurus Judge: The latest ill-conceived self defense weapon that's selling like crazy

General Firearms Terminal Ballistic Information
1

I see threads about this gun cropping up all over the place. Listening to reports of people who work in gun stores, they’re apparently selling like hotcakes. People apparently don’t look past the “ZOMG! Shotgun shell in a handgun!!!” wow factor, and just swallow the marketing hype hook, line, and sinker.

Old_Painless over on AR15.com has already done water testing to confirm the absolutely horrid performance of the .410 loads in a Judge, but now Winchester has gotten into the fray and issued a PDX1 load for this abomination:

When it comes to the safety of you or your family, choose the shotshell load that delivers a threat-stopping combination of two distinct personal defense technologies: the PDX1™. Highly effective in both shotguns and 410 compatible handguns, the 410-gauge Supreme Elite PDX1 features a distinctive black hull and black oxide high-base head and combines three plated Defense DiscTM projectiles and 12 pellets of plated BB shot. The result is the ideal personal defense load for short range engagement with the performance needed to stop threats. As you can imagine, this load is also suitable for varmint hunting and pest control.

Ideal? I don’t think so. Apparently, the latest Guns & Ammo has a glowing review of this ammo where they state the discs penetrate to 10.5" in ballistic gelatin (I find that dubious), none of the BBs beyond 5.5", and the shot spreads out to the diameter of a face in 10ft (Look ma! No aiming required!).

It is absolutely shameful that gun companies are misleading the general public into buying these weapons. Unfortunately, many people will have some dicey encounters if they ever call on their weapons to really help them when the time comes.

2

I hate that fucking thing. It’s the dipshit sidearm of choice.

Why anyone would think a round that’s barely suitable for squirrels suddenly turns into the Hammer of Thor when you put it into a pistol is just beyond me.

How you doing, you square-headed Prussian?

3

Why do manufacturers make things? Because people buy things.

If all the market offered was what people really needed, there’d be less than two dozen total offerings, if that many.

If all the market offered was truly a good idea, there’d be far fewer than that.

4

That wasn’t the point. I fully support the right of manufacturers to make money off of shitheads. In that regard, I rather like “The Judge”, because it’s a simple means of visually identifying a shithead.

5

…:D…

6

But wait, it gets even better.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/21/not-as-lethal-ammunition-for-taurus-judge/

7

This firearm and ammo combination came up at a recent NRA Personal Protection Inside the Home Instructor Certification.

Of course it is the ultimate home defense weapon, in case you were on the fence.

:rolleyes:

8

Oh good Lord - like you need less lethal ammo to make that thing more less-lethal…

9

Doing good. That pronounced slope on your forehead finally straighten out a bit after your wife hit you in the head a few more times with a 2x4?

:smiley:

10

Sweet baby Jebus, what is that shell loaded with, Cheetos? :eek:

11

When Taurus hangs a laser and red dot sight on the Judge, I’ll jump up and buy one, and when I do, I’ll send it off for the best accuracy job money can buy. Until then, I’ll stick with my flare pistol and molotov cocktails.

:smiley: williejc

12

Call me strange, but I can actually see a plausible use for the Taurus Judge.

It actually does a reasonable job for being a snake gun. So if one has a need for dispatching rattlesnakes, then it can work.

I agree that it is a poor self-defense weapon against human assailants. The .45 colt load works well for that role, but there’s plenty of other good choices than a 5-shot long cylinder revolver for self defense.

13

You’re correct: It does look like a good snake gun - I should have mentioned that. My complaint was solely directed at marketing as a self-defense weapon.

CCI used to make those shotshells (they may still) in pistol calibers, but the .410 would be much superior in performance for pest control.

14

I’ll stick with my flare pistol and molotov cocktails.

Hmmm, perhaps if they could develop an effective .410 flare cartridge, it would make a good boat gun also capable of repelling pirates and downing seagulls for food after rations run out.

15

The only Judge that was cool was something Pontiac made in '69 and rumor has it that it was originally marketed as a joke. Maybe Taurus is just joking as well.

Too funny! :smiley:

16

The 18.5" bbl Rossi (Taurus) Circuit Judge shotgun (http://www.rossiusa.com/news-detail.cfm?newsID=25), loaded with 5 rounds of Federal PD412JGE 000 buck (4 pellets @1200 fps) or Remington 410B00HD 00 buck (4 pellets @ 1300 fps) appears to be a reasonable HD shotgun choice for those who aren’t shooting enthusiasts. No need to clear stoppages, no chance of short stroking a pump action, moderate recoil.

17

Well, as long as it’s a .410, it sucks for self-defense.

.45 Long Colt LRN still has better ballistics than .410 slugs. There is nothing you can put in a .410 that will be a decent self-defense load.

So why not get a .45LC revolver, or revolving rifle (Last time I checked Taylor’s still imported one) instead, and have something that’s shorter, handier and more accurate?

18

One of the reasons it’s so popular is that last year NRA named it the handgun of the year.

Now according to the equation Below(and I’m not saying this is correct it just seems to me to be the way it is.)

KNOWN FACTORS

NRA= Goodness/ authority/ 2nd Amendment Pied Piper

Majority of Gun Buyers (AKA- MGB’s)= Internet gun forum junkies/ not inclined to get training/ go for the CDI factor (Chicks Dig It).

Mass Marketing (AKA- MM)= Shiny paged magazines & The internet.

Coherent/ Informed Gun Owners (AKA- CI).

SO:
NRA + MGB’s + MM / CI = ?

Well if we take the equation and work it by adding the three main parts and deviding it buy those of us who are intellectually sober possibly even savvy firearms enthusiasts we get:

NRA + MGB’s + MM / CI= Waiting lists at gun shops for a firearm with limited usefulness and a fever to buy these things similar to that of a middle school teenage girl trying to buy tickets to a Lady Gaga concert.

NOW all that said… I will confess that I did actually buy one of these years ago when they were first released with the intention of using it as a general carry around the property type thing/ maybe for hunting as a side arm etc.

I did it because my local gun shop guy says “Hey man you gotta get one of these. They’re pretty bad ass.” So I had the $400 bucks and rather than buy ammo which is why I was in there, I figure ahh F’ck it. Why not?

Shortly (an hour or 2) there after I’m wondering WTF? this thing is a bitch to shoot. It’s not very accurate, 45LC is a suck round and .410 isn’t any better.

OH! And I still needed to pick up the .223 ammo that I originally went to get. So now I have a crap gun and no ammo for an up coming training event.

Hey I never said i was a genius ok.:smiley:

Anyways… That’s kinda my take on the “Judge.”

Feel free to disagree.

PS… Yes I sold it… and for more than I paid…That’s how bad some people fell for this thing.

19

Our gun shop can not keep these things in stock. They fly out the door. The clientele that buy these guns can not be swayed either. I stopped trying to point Judge customers in a different direction because they are just DEAD SET on owning one of these.

20

The gun is a novelty at best. My thoughts on that rnd from Winchester was the same, i bet the terminal ballistics are far from ideal. Not buying the flat round discs would have needed penetration. I hope DocGR et al addresses the rnd at some point, but emotions and marketing trump hard data and facts for most people, thus why the gun sells at all. :rolleyes: