I am in the market for a .308 bolt gun for LE sniper work. I have access to LTRs but I really don’t care for them. I shot an AI recently and put down one of the best groups I’ve ever shot. I don’t really want to spend 4k on a rifle and they are heavy bastards, but knowing myself I will if I don’t find a good alternative and my wife actually was cool with it when we were talking about it. Whatever I get will have a 4-16 ATACR so that part is settled.
I really like the ergonomics of the AI as well as Mcree and KRG stocks I have been behind compared to more traditional stocks like McMillian or Manners.
Here is a basic list of features I am looking for:
1/2 min accuracy
Detachable box magazine
Forward nods rail or one that can be easily added
6 o’clock rail for atlas bipod
Vertical pistol grip
Adjustable length of pull and cheek piece
Folding stock or overall length under 42 inches.
Switchable barrels,(want more than need but I really want a 6.5 also and it would decrease down time when I shoot out a barrel)
Short bolt throw
The closer to 10lbs the better(bare rifle).
What other options should I be looking at?
I’m not ready to hop into a Ruger until the system matures. This will get duty use and I don’t want to have to mess with it to get it running right.
I’m not opposed to dropping a 700 in a chassis but I’ve seen a few that had trouble feeding reliably from their mags.
I’ve heard plenty of good things about the FN SPR.
pretty solid choice. definitely high quality. if you like the chassis, there’s not much to complain about.
plenty of cheaper guns will shoot as small or smaller. it’s pretty heavy. after you swap barrels, make sure you confirm zero before using it for duty.
if budget is an issue, as it usually is with LEO duty guns, a $1500 gun (even if it doesn’t meet all the criteria above) and $2500 in ammo is a WAY better idea than $4000 gun and the couple hundred rounds the dept allocates you
If you dont mind the Winchester/FN pre-64 style action I would take a hard look at the FN SPR in .308. You can find a solid rifle, bed it and upgrade what you would like to for a lot less money than you can find an AI rifle.
Im not saying the AI is a poor choice… Hell, I would love to have one, but you can likely get a rifle that is every bit as capable for your average LE call out for a lot less money and put the rest toward support equipment, ammo, professional training, etc.
For what its worth, I took my personally owned SPR A1, bedded/threaded by SAC to a PRW basic sniper course and it was more reliable and more accurate than every other rifle, including an R700, Savage 10, and two high dollar custom rifles. Might be worth a look.
Maybe look at the DTA SRS A1. If you’re okay with the bullpup ergonomics they are incredible rifles. Barrel changes are dead simple. The biggest downside is that, depending on the package, it’ll cost more than the AI.
I just thought of this. The gun shop here builds customs for $2500, pick your caliber… They do not have a quick change barrel, but you might be able to do that using a different action. Most are stiller actions. The owner shoots a 6x47L most of the time. He can shoot a 4 inch group @ 1k with it all day long. I own two of these rifles. A 338LM and a 6.5 CM. They are tack drivers. Stiller tac 30 action, kreiger and bartlien barrels on XLR chassis, Beasts of top of both. Everyone up here shoots his guns. They all like high power rifles. I would put them = to Georges(GAP)rifles.
He also sells lots of NF scopes at a good price. PM me and I will give you my ph number if you would like to discuss it further.
AIAT is a great rifle. As are all of the other suggestions. I have a AIAT that I shoot regularly along with a DTA and a couple savages with aftermarket stocks and barrels. They all are fun to shoot and perform well.
Get what you want and make sure you got plenty extra left for all the other accessories needed to complete the system. You can burn through some cash pretty easy in this game.
you know that last year, the NBRSA 10 shot heavy gun record was 4.322" at 1000 yd?
you know that a berger 105 hybrid at 3050 fps has 6.99" of drift per mph of wind at 1000? in other words, you’re saying assuming a perfect rifle and ammo with zero dispersion and perfect aiming and execution, he would have to be able to call the wind to less than 2/3rd mph.
He has his own personal range with steel out to 1400y. I shoot there also sometimes. He has a pic on his phone of the steel, its not a bullseye. He does shoot matches sometimes and knows what he is doing. He outclasses me by far. I’m not trying to get into a contest here, just saying he builds a good gun at a good price.
If you want one, get it. My son has one with a Nightforce scope. It is a tack driver with Gold Medal match. Heavy bastard though. Better to lust after one of these than a mistress and divorce.LOL
There are a ton of options out there as far as custom guns that still come in under your budget. Longrifles Inc will build you a Mausingfield barreled action out the door for under 3k, and if you choose a barrel they have in stock you’ll probably have it in less than a week. The Mausingfield fits into any Remington 700 SA stock or chassis so you have dozens of quality options to choose from (KRG, McCrees, XLR, etc). That’s just what I would do with your budget.
there are a million options and a million opinions on what gun to buy, IMO there are very few rifles in the class of a AI for a service type weapon. I own a couple AI’s and a DTA (great gun as well), i also own 5 GA precision rifles, have owned/ shot tac ops, surgeon, KMW, long rifles, spartan, stiller, crecent custom, STR, etc etc etc… they are all great but for a factory gun you can buy factory parts for and barrels off the shelf to replace with with factory support on a standard bolt action rifle? AI is pretty damn hard to beat, if the stock fits you then its a great choice.
the reason i didn’t put DTA in here is it is a great gun with all the factory support as well, some people just cannot come to terms with the bull pup design, if its fits you and you can shoot it comfortably it is also a great option.
there are very few other “switch barrel” options out there as easy or as tried and true as the above. All guns are “switch barrel” with a barrel vise , but if you want a off the shelf gun AI, DTA both great options if you want a custom gun then the world is the your oyster, any of the top makers will build you a 308 that will stack rounds.
Out of curiosity, do LEOs face the same possible perception issues with highly customized guns and having to shoot someone that people say that non-LEOs face. On the other angle, the OP seems pretty well tuned in and making competent equipment choices. If my families life is on the line, do I want the SWAT sniper showing up with an AI or some custom gun. While the suggestions here for smiths are all quite competent, what about a life-or-death gun that isn’t from a reputable or qualified smith?
Are those issues, or does being a SWAT sniper take away those issues. You are assumed to be competent in skill and equipment? You use a AI with an S&B scope, I don’t think anyone can question your choices.
Been pondering the above post off and on for a few hours. Two separate issues.
My guess is gear is not an indicator of proficiency. I would not expect a Leo sniper who shows up with an AI and s&b to be any better or worse than one who brings a 700pss and vx3.
If I were the hostage there are maybe 3 counties in the country where I’d rather a swat guy take the shot. In the rest I reckon I’d take my chances with the bad guy and the only equipment that might change my mind is the swat team pulls a full size concrete benchrest and chair out of their mrap. At least then id have a chance if I hold real still.
What is the average range a SWAT sniper takes a shot at ?
This is real life, not some movie where the sniper guy always hits just above and center of forehead. Or a movie where he looks to be 500 yards out, looks up at the sky and then takes the shot. Where was his Kestral and Terrapin range finders ? We never see that in video footage of the guy(SWAT sniper) on the roof with any real gear. No spotter either, just him and a gun with his Butlers flipped up.
After reading his post again, I did look at the gun on AI’s site, it does look pretty sweet, but I do not think I could handle the 2.5lb trigger. This would actually be the big deciding factor on the purchase. There is a margin of safety there that a jewel will never have. My triggers are about .5 on all my bolt guns. I keep the booger hook off the trigger unless I want to kill something or make a new hole on the paper.
I let a new guy I met fire my 338LM tonight, which I always make them dry fire first, then let them put a mag in when they are ready. The kid tonight did just like everyone else does, they yank on it then say whoa bro !!! that’s light. Then I say, just caress it like you would a woman’s nipple. He dry fired it for 5 minutes before he shot it tho. Which is longer than most do. He shot 500 yards tonight for the first time ever and all he could say is dam, that’s a thump, which makes me laugh every time. We have a 3 foot plate 1 inch thick that gets beat on weekly.
Where is the OP at ? What did he decide on and why ?
see i don’t get my triggers beneath 1-1.5lbs most are timney flat at around 2. i like the distinct break of glass feel. i’ve shot the low weight triggers that take any pressure to set off, i wouldn’t put one of those in a service weapon EVER, but that is just me. Under pressure, real world, sweating on a roof, off a car, in armor. yeah i want to have to mean to push the trigger not worry about breathing too hard in it’s general direction.
and you had your 338 shooting at 500 yards? thats like driving your 1500hp dragster to get the mail at the end of your 100ft driveway… i don’t even bring mine out unless i have 1500 plus to play with, i don’t feel like sending $5 rounds at stuff i can hit with my 223 trainer.
By policy we must have triggers of at least 3.5lbs. One of our guys has a trigger right at 3.5 and it is lighter than I prefer.
Remember this isn’t shot from a bench. Lay out in zero degree weather for a few hours and tell me how well that sub lb trigger works for you, not so great when you can’t feel your fingers.
As for kestrels and terrapins? Our “average” distance for an OP on a call out is right between 40-60 yards because the distance between the front of a house and the front of the one across the street is almost always 40 in our city. My closest on an actual operation was 17yards. In training I have set up as close as 7(inside a building with a cornered hostage taker using my partner’s shoulder for support). I’m comfortable with head shots to 300 in perfect conditions but a true hostage shot is another ball game. Right now I would put my max to about 150 on a true hostage with a preference to be as close as possible. This is not a “hey bob watch this distance” it is where I would feel comfortable sending it past my own kid at 1/3 if a face.
There is a reason my 5, 7, 10, 15, and 25 yard dope are on my stock along with my dope out to 400.
I’m pretty sold on the AI although I’m going to have it chopped to 16.5 so I can keep it to 20" length with the can. Just need a few more scheckles. I’m probably going to get the ATACR first and put it on my JP LRP and see how that does with a little more mag on it. One of my partners is going the custom route but his smith is the technical advisor for the American Sniper Association.
