TACOM finally serious about acquiring collapsible buttstocks for M16 rifles

Late last month, TACOM announced that they were going to offer a sole-source contract to Colt for 5,000 M16 Buttstock Kits with a 200% option. (W52H09-09-R-0219) This made me suspicious that these were not the standard fixed stock, but a collapsible stock conversion kit. TACOM finally posted details to their website, and the attachments confirmed my suspicions.

Item: SLIDING BUTTSTOCK CONVERSION KIT
NSN: 1005-01-569-6938

This is a complete turn-around in TACOM’s position. They’ve fought this in the past, even sending notices that such modifications were unsafe and unauthorized.

Old Update: TACOM has cancelled the sole-source solicitation.
New Update (7-22-2009): TACOM announces its intent to reissue the solicitation as a competitive procurement.

dewatters,

IS there a link or something that you can post? I find this rather interesting as well.

FBO Notice
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=392193593c0cead67c6c9e008e28f865&tab=core&_cview=1

TACOM-RI Solicitation
https://aais.ria.army.mil/AAIS/Padds_web/W52H0909R0219/0000.pdf

Solicitation Attachment
https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/Padds_web/W52H0909R0219/attach_exhib/Attach1.pdf

Old Update: TACOM has cancelled the sole-source solicitation.
https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/padds_web/W52H0909R0219/0001.pdf
New Update (7-22-2009): TACOM announces its intent to reissue the solicitation as a competitive procurement.

It’s only been 24-odd years since the Infantry Center identified it as too long; six years after the Canadians adopted a collapsible stock for the C7A2; and four years since the US Army Training Center at Fort Jackson, South Carolina identified the long stock as a problem for trainees in Interceptor and PASGT helmets.

So would it be the same stock the M4 has?

Well, it is a moot point now. TACOM just canceled the solicitation.

And AFAIK, their official position is still that collapsible buttstocks make M16A2s and A4s malfunction, with a strong inference that it will get you killed.

I’ll shoot an e-mail to the TACOM LARs here tomorrow and see if they know anything.

Who is still carrying A2s? I have seen non enhanced readiness brigades in NG with M4’s issued across the board. 5,000 is not a lot of stocks.

They’re still out there. In '05 when a new BDE was stood up where I was stationed, we had to laterally transfer most of our M4s to the new BDE and I was issued a brand new M16A2. That rifle was the best shooting weapon I had ever shot in 14 years.

All of those A2s bought during the 80’s and 90’s are still out there, tons of units still have them. There are tons of them still in National Guard Armories and Reserve Centers all over the country.

Support and rear area troops will still be using them long after this war is over.

The M4 is great for front line door kickers and those operating out of vehicles, but shouldn’t be a general issue weapon as it serves no benefit for the REMF’s and Fobbits to have them.

Too funny! The M4, when it was released it was stated that it was specifically for the REMF’s that did not need a full size battle rifle.

Still see alot of full length M16A2 in Baghdad and other locations in Iraq. CRC at Benning issues few M4 and manly M16A2 to people coming over. These are usually carried by Fobbits, Reserve and Guard units. I did run into one of my former support troops in 5th SF yesterday and he had a 10.5".

CD

My Reserve Unit still has the A2s and they really suck!! The funny thing is my unit is always deploying. Some of our Soldiers has had as much as 4-deployments in six years!!

That is definitely irony, it was supposed to replace the M9 for some troops. But turned out to be just the ticket for urban warfare and specops.

I remember the first m4 I ever saw in the mid 90’s it was pretty cool then, especially as a replacement for the aging early Colt carbines that were still out there.

Their official position on those stocks is akin to their position on insisting that a 300m BZO for MFAL devices (when troops with a PVS-14 can’t see targets any farther than 150m under ideal conditions, to include a PID distance no better than 65m) is fully appropriate: that is to say, hogwash.

We have some A4s with adjustable stocks on them here, and they have a few tens of thousands of rounds through them. They work just fine, and by the numbers, the difference in incurred malfunctions that result from the loss of ass (weight) found in a solid stock to that of an adjustable is about the same as the chance of an American dying by being kicked to death by a mule.

It’s the usual BS of Big Army and their desire for the next “transformational” weapon (EX: the OICW or the XM-8 with that stupid fixed optic), instead of doing sensible, easy, incremental changes to the current platfrom to keep it up, running, and on a steady curve of improvement. If it isn’t something that their Fairy-God-Senator can’t stump with IOT keep the world safe for re-election, they aren’t interested.

TACOM has cancelled the order.

https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/padds_web/W52H0909R0219/0001.pdf

82nd had collapsible stocks on a number of their M16A4s in 2007-2008. I also happen to be a fan of the M16A2/A4; it’s always worked in my experience.

Keeping it specific to our own gun club: it was never a question as to whether the fixed-stock variants work or not. The Corps was still predominantly carrying the A2 during the Iraq invasion, so the point that they fulfill their basic function can be amply proven by anecdotal evidence alone.

I see it as a question not of how well they work, but of who they work for. They don’t work so well for that Pvt/PFC/LCpl I always see, the one that’s just barely over the minimum height requirement and weighs 125 with 400 nickels in his pockets, who could really get some mileage out of an adjustable throw length on his weapon. If for no other reason than to get his proper eye relief IOT get a real BZO on his gun instead of the 4" he has to make do with because the RCO is as far back as it goes, and his neck is as far forward as he can crane it.

Offset mounts that provide +/- 1.25" of additional backset are now approved (the LaRue, for instance) for purchase and use for those issued an A4, but that just happened this year, so we’ve had about 4+ years of a certain segment of the GCE who have basically been unable to get their best possible score on a KD course, much less shoot Mr. I Hate America and His Brother Achnad in the lamps, and for what? So the competition guys have a solid stock in service so they can use it for their service rifle competitions? They could do that, anyway. They have their mandate, and it’s not like they’ll ever completely disappear from the inventory.

That poor little dude is the one who invariably gets an A4 or a SAW as his TO weapon to carry all over Hell’s half-acre so that some SNCO or staff officer that never leaves the wire can carry an M4 because it’s easier for them to cart around Al Asad between slideshows, Green Bean and mid-rats. That (and a laundry list of other trends we’re seeing these days) is why the ideal of “Every Marine a rifleman!” is a nice goal to aspire to, but stops being anything like reality once they set foot from The Island or MCRD San Diego.

Many here, I’m sure, have seen some sort of test numbers involved regarding MTBF rates (or whatever the squint term is) between solid vs. adjustable stock of a full-size rifle. Instead of a (WARNING: totally made-up numbers follow!) .00000174 chance of a stoppage with a solid stock, there’s a .0000382 chance with a collapsible. Basically, 4 zeros behind the decimal point instead of 5. O noes!! :eek: Balderdash!

And that’s forgetting the fact that gov’t T&E entities (like MCOTEA) that conduct such tests often resemble about 600 rhesus monkeys, all of whom are trying to vigorously butt-hump the same doorknob.

Sorry for the rant. I’m involved with a similar yet unrelated procurement event that is making me want to kick a kitten through a fan from the institutional inertia alone. Only thing that irritates me more than redundant capabilities are the ones that are ignored because they don’t grok with somebody’s “I heart War” Utopian Ideal, in spite of making complete real-world sense.

A lot of units here in 2ID have both M16A2s and A4s; mostly Combat Service Support units, but even line units (here) still have A2s for their KATUSA personnel (Korean Augmentation To United States Army).

+1. We just had a major issue here because the LARs suddenly discovered that one of the line units had a few weapons that had been, OMG- PAINTED! You know, the dreaded ‘unauthorized MWO!’ :rolleyes:

I saw them like that a year or so ago, determined that only nonfunctional, external areas were painted, told the armorer ‘y’all ain’t s’posed to do that,’ and let it go at that. That generated 3 days of OFFICIAL email traffic to ‘all users,’ and made me laugh. The LARs said to use dry cleaning solvent to try to remove the paint. Whatever doesn’t come off with that will have to be allowed to wear off. It’s a rattle can finish for crying out loud, so it’s going to wear like nobody’s business anyway. No reason for anyone to have kittens.