Hey everybody, I am in need of some help here. I have been agonizing over optic choice for nearly six months now, as this will be the only optic on my AR for quite a while.
The rifle is a 16" centurion chf light weight. It’s a general purpose shooter for use in a home defense, range toy, competition gun, class gun. My local range goes out to 600 yards, and they are building a 1000 yard range, but I’ll leave that for my M1A.
Now as far as the optics go, I’ve been narrowed down to the ta33g-h and the tr24g for a while. My main points of contention are between the weight, reticle, and ruggedness of the acog or the versatility, speed, and (supposed) low light performance of the accupoint.
So, my questions to you fine folks…
How good is the low light “bump in the night” performance of each of these optics? Bear in mind that, at least according to the air force, I have very good night vision.
How much of a hinderance is the post reticle to range estimation
with the tr24? Is the bdc feature of the acog that much better in this regard?
How serious is the washout when used in conjunction with a weapon light? Note: my light is the elzetta zfl-m60 with 235 lumens
The specs show that the accupoint is significantly heavier, but how noticeable is it on the weapon itself?
How rugged is the accupoint compared to other optics? I understand it won’t compete with the acog in this regard, but otherwise how much abuse can it handle?
Thanks for the help, all. I realize that there will be a few of you who tell me to get a red dot instead, and I appreciate the input…but I am not interested in battery powered optics at this time. Also, please do not put too much emphasis on the home defense portion. I live in a safe neighborhood, and my go to weapon is my 1911, not the AR for this purpose. Also, I am more than willing to put in the time practicing close range with the acog, but even with sufficient practice I don’t know if it will be as fast as the accupoint at 1x.
I think there may be an acceptable compromise with the TR 24-3G.
The post on the TR-24 is actually 2 outer posts and you can see between them fine. I don’t know if the 3G is the same in that regard. Get an eyeball through one if you can.
I experimented with washout on my TR-24 and I had absolutely no problem picking up my triangle. The cross hairs on the 3G are smaller so it may be an issue there. My light is a SF 961. Output should be close to yours. I don’t remember specs on that.
I can’t say how rugged the TR 24 is, but it seems really stout.
I never expected to go out to 600m. The 33 may be better here, but I have no idea.
For my setup, the TR 24 weight is negligible, considering I am too muzzle heavy with the aimpoint micro on. The weight is far enough back that it does not bother me too much.
I did look at the 3G version, but the dot is too small for my tastes. I prefer a big glowing center and not a while lot else. Ill leave mil dots for my longer range rigs.
I doubt I am canals of really reaching out to 600 with this gun, but my range supports it. Most likely I will stay within the 400 mark.
Anyone else have input as well? As popular as the tr24 seems to be around here, I’m surprised by the lack of comments. I did a lot of searching these forums and never really found an answer to these questions.
My opinion is that neither one is optimal for “bump in the night” work. A simple red dot T1, M4 ect would be better.
I have the TA33R on my rifle. If I have to use it at night with a flashlight, I just accept the limitation that the reticle will wash out. I can still see it.
Heck, at night with a flashlight, you might just be point shooting anyway.
I understand that these are not optimal for a bump in the night gun, but my go to weapon for that is a flashlight and 1911. I simply was asking about their low light performance.
Electronic optics are great, but are not what I’m looking for at this time. My 90 percent use on this gun is range work and carry when out in the open fields of MT.
I have used an Eotech,and T1. I have 6 uppers two have the Aimpoint M4s, four have the Tr24 3 have the green triangle, 1 has the red triangle.
I prefer the TR24 to anything I’ve used/ have. During daylight/low light it is ridiculously bright, and fast to pick up. In no light with or with a weapon light it is fine, and there are no issues using it in a dark environment.
But the Aimpoint is slightly easier to pick up in a totally dark environment (for me).
The TR24 with its magnification obviously would be better at longer ranges.
For cqb style I’m just as fast with the Tr24 as a I with the Aimpoint.
So I would say go for the Tr24. Worst that can happen is you dont like it, then you can sell it and buy an Aimpoint.
I recently swapped out an old first generation Eotech for a TR-24G. I have had very limited time with the TR, but my impression so far as it relates to your questions:
Bump in the night: the big old window of the Eotech is obviously easier to use at short ranges and in a busy visual field like a living room, but the TR at true 1X seems like I will be able to adapt to it very easily with more practice. Both eyes open it works well, just going to take some getting used to.
Post reticle for range estimation: I was easily able to establish proper hold over to ring the gongs at 300 and 400 yards at the range. There was a cross wind so I had to hold off a bit and the post wasn’t directly over the gong but while dinking with the site picture, I don’t think it will be a show stopper. The gongs are about 16" plates and I could still pick them out in the post. A small bullseye or something would maybe be a problem, but dialing elevation instead of holdover would be my preference in that circumstance.
Washout: against a bright snow background while looking from inside a room to outside, the reticle glow completely disappeared. But, the triangle shape on top of the post was still easily visible and quick to pick up. IMHO this is an advantage of the triangle-on-post reticle: it will always be a quick draw for my eye.
Weight: the TR is heavier than my old Eotech, but the balance didn’t get messed up. My carbine isn’t a lightweight to start with so this wasn’t a big deal to me.
Ruggedness: to early to say.
Last note: I’m one of the least experienced guys on this forum so if somebody else tells you I’m nuts, believe them.
So after due consideration and much PM info (thanks all) I will be ordering the tr24.
A question of mounts, though. I know the Larue lt-104 will not clear my mbus sights, but what about the ADM or Bobro mounts? I know the tall larue mount (lt-135?) will, but it seems nobody carries them these days.
I got my LT-135 (1.93).directly from Larue, it was not in stock, but I had it in about a week and a half along with the usual swag…great
people. I suggest calling CS directly when ordering.
I have owned both and I much much prefer the tr24g over the ta33g-h.
The ta33 was definitely lighter, and I loved the horseshoe and BDC reticle. Although the center dot was so large that long range “precision” shots were tough.
The tr24 is my cup o’ tea. At 1x, it’s super fast and I can switch from target to target while keeping both eyes open and be completely aware of surroundings. On 4x, hits to 300 (the furthest I have been able to shoot) are ridiculously easy. I have it at a 40/300 yard zero. It works PERFECT. It is a little heavy but balances extremely well on my rifle.
ta33G-h
Tr24g German #4 reticle green dot
Also, my suggestion for a home defense rifle, would be the TA44SR-10. It’s so freaking tiny and at 1.5x it’s ideal for cqb and the circle-dot reticle is great for close and longer range. 200 is as far as I’ve hit with this optic. I use it for my .22lr conversion kit for steel challenge matches.
Ta44sr-10
Or if you don’t mind batteries and eotechs reticle, the XPS eotech is a good home defense choice. or for .22lr like I have it here.
I was actually planning to put the EOTECH XPS Opmod on my next upper, which will be a BCM LW 14.5" with pinned battlecomp (hence why I was not looking for an electric optic right now)
I really appreciate the input, all. I ordered the mount last night, an ADM RECON-H. I will probably be ordering the TR24 here in a month or so as finances allow.
I’m looking to buy a BCM 14.5" Middy upper with pinned BattleComp but they’re completely sold out on their sight. I have a complete BCM lower and that TA44SR-10 ACOG just sitting here.
I really like that xps Eotech. If there’s anyway you could look through a TA44, do it. It’s really an amazing little optic and I really dig the 1.5x.
Good call on the TR24… I run a TR24G and absolutely love it!
As far as mounts, I went with the Bobro. Zero adjustment, just one lever and its rock solid. As a side note, trjicicon actually brands bobro as the TR125. I had a holiday coupon from optics planet and got one for around 190.
