Hey guys, so I’m all good on personal guns currently, but a couple months ago I convinced my wife that a few of our savings dollars would do well in the form of a couple of PSA AR’s while they could be bought so inexpensively. After seeing for how little the 5.45x39 ammo is going (175/1080) I began to think about swapping one of the PSA’s for an AK74. I figure I can own it, shoot it a little bit, and if AK’s follow the current trend, it will only increase in value.
What do you guys think? Good or bad idea? Also, what’s a good one to get? From the reading I’ve done thus far, looks like Waffen Works might be good. Being as that I’d rather trade locally than sell and buy, what are some other ones to keep an eye out for?
Hedge fund AR huh? Not a bad thought. I guess anything that isn’t invested in dollars could be considered a hedge vs inflation. I would buy another only if the prices are ridiculously low.
I think that firearms and ammo (especially ammo) are the ultimate hedge as they will retain value long after everything else save food and fuel is worthless. Assuming that things don’t get that bad, you can make money on firearms if you buy the right factory built guns at good prices. I think you kind of missed the boat on AK74’s. Arsenal is simply asking too much for their current crop for one to expect much appreciation. A good deal right now in the AK arena are the Serbian N-PAP’s, O-PAP’s, PAP M85’s and PAP M92’s. The market is currently flooded with them, but they will stop making them some day. Who ever thought that a Chinese MAK-90 would go for $700-$800? I certainly didn’t when I paid $180 for mine.
No, not at all. An AK will never be an AR. Despite what people on the internet think, AKs are not the most reliable weapons on the battlefield. They will not survive everything. Most importantly, they’re not worth nearly what people are paying these days, except as “interesting” guns. If you’re into collecting, and you want to build the gun that the first Talib you smoked was carrying, or the gun the Spetnaz guys in Rambo carried when the entered the POW camp. etc. that’s one thing. That’s it though. No one can tell you how much your need to fill a desire is worth. I have numerous guns that are only as expensive as they are because people are willing to pay for them. They’re also significantly more rare than any of my AKs which I got for cheap.
Despite what the internet will tell you, putting fancy keymods, lights, optics, and AR grips/stocks on an AK does not make it something it’s not. It’s still a peasant gun that should cost in the hundreds of dollars, not thousands. It’s like giving a makeover to a girl who lost most of her teeth to her meth addiction. She’s still a lot less classy and refined than the girl who doesn’t perform fellatio to get her next fix, despite her new clothes and fake teeth. Compared to an AR, the AKs ergonomics suck, even if you dress them up. It’s still going to shoot garbage ammo and be less accurate. It’s going to still be less comfortable to shoot because of the trigger, high reciprocating mass, and general AKness. I know this is going to melt some faces, but one of the least reliable guns I’ve seen in combat is the AK platform-including, but not limited to: Russian (stamped and milled), Yugo/Serbian, Chinese (stamped and milled), Hungarian (AMD-65), various cobbled monstrosities, etc… The biggest failures I’ve seen center around (but not limited to) the fire control group taking a dump.
If you want to have a different way to turn money into noise, yes, get an AK. If you’re looking to make yourself more “combat effective” for some perceived Red Dawn scenario, you’re kidding yourself by getting the AK to have on standby. If we survive long enough to expend our stores for our ARs, we’ll have had an opportunity to recover an AK. Keep this in mind: if someone who can’t spell their own name can employ an AK, surely someone who can effectively employ an AR, operate a computer and type words on the internet, and file taxes without being audited can figure it out. I’m not trying to be a jerk either; I’m serious, if you posses those skills, let alone an understanding of what “trajectory” is, then you are more than qualified to use an AK in the Red Dawn.
I’ll deliver the dissenting opinion… of which there are many on the topic.
Both AKs and ARs are/have been fielded by conscripts. Conscripted service and the military profession is a whole 'nother discussion… and what rifle to issue is only one chapter.
Why should it be? It’s a different platform with different characteristics. The oft repeated “ARs are accurate and unreliable and AKs are reliable and innacurate” is a gross oversimplification. Over time, we have developed many ways to enhance the reliability of the AR platform. If you want to see a pretty decent jump in AK accuracy, mount an optic independent of the wobbly tangent sight and find some consistently loaded ammunition. You have to be open to the idea of other platforms before any kind of discussion can begin… except for battle rifles, because a G3 will simply never be an FAL.
Honestly, I personally believe they are damn close. We’ve all seen weapons fail due to conditions. We’ve all seen weapons fail due to improper or non existent maintenance (any machine on earth is susceptible to that). We’ve seen weapons fail due to mags-and-ammo. It’s my personal belief that due to the looser tolerances, bolt lug design, and (somewhat overgassed) piston operation that the AK crunches sand “more reliably.” Safe statement?
I seldom, if ever, entertain these kind of fantasies, but… if you’re planning on gunfighting your way our of Mainstreet, USA to some secret bugout location or forming an SKT with your poker buddies, I can tell you it’s highly unlikely. Most of us CCW for self defense, but the long gun you’re most likely to encounter, say… on vacation in Latin America, doing some work in Africa, or catching a tan in the Middle East will be the AK platform. IF you find it motivating to convince yourself that your training is tied to some practical need, you are more likely to find yourself in the Westgate-Mall-Scenario with a recovered AK than you are likely to find yourself in your digital-access COL John Matrix gun shed trying to pick out what to wear and carry for your upcoming “Combat.”
(There… I just indulged in the fantasy… but it is also my belief that a “student of arms” should posses more-than-just-fam-fire with AK types and Glock types- simply because no matter how much emotional distaste you have for either platform, those are the weapons you will likely encounter when you’re looking-for-weapons)
He asked about a '74.
Which brings me right back to the OP…
If you enjoy “shooting,” you’ll do more of it with a 5.45 gun right now.
If you’ve built more than a basic proficiency with the AR and are looking for another platform to take on, the AK is next.
If you have an all-around, go-to AR set up with quality components and accessories, your next gun should be:
A- Another AR set up for mid range outdoor shooting or short range CQB shooting
B- The battle rifle of your choice
C- Some next-gen oddity
D- An AK.
I tried going to the dark side about a year ago and as much as I tried to like the '74 I ended up selling it and putting the funds towards a suppressor. I personally do not care for the platform and as NongShim has stated, it’s not an AR and nor it should be.
I would personally LOVE to hear some of these first hand accounts if you can and are willing to take the time to share with us.
I have heard/read quite a bit about AMD-65 issues and have personal experience with a friends (922r hunk of junk). But I haven’t heard much about the Russian & Chinese rifles.
I’m not a fan of investing in anything firearms related right now. The ever looming threat of “turn them all in for no money,” or “you can own it but can’t transfer it,” due to the grabbers chipping away at our rights simply puts their risk level a bit high for me vs other diversification strategies.
That said, buy a 5.45 upper for one of those lowers and fire away…
Again. I’m speaking of a strictly investment mindset. They can make your firearms useless to anyone but you, flushing their worth down the drain. I’m always looking for the next guest in my safe, but it’s not based upon potential resale value long term.
Overall, firearms are a poor investment strategy. I think people have had their perceptions about this seriously warped by the antics of the last 12-14 months.
It is like seeing one glimpse of the tech bubble of the late 90s and extrapolating that to think the entire stock market has always worked that way. The 2012/2013 explosion was pretty unique; a perfect storm between the election and Sandy Hook. Not even the 2008 panic saw firearm values go up that significantly. If anyone is planning on getting rich and retiring based on their intent to sell some rifles during some theoretical future “next scare”, I think they’ll find market conditions to be different than in this last run. Remember that investment saying, “past performance is rarely an indicator of future returns”. Know of a good number of folks who have all ready “panicked” and have an AR or two that they didn’t before the scare. Next time there is a threatened AWB, they won’t be scampering to pay any price for any rifle just to not get caught.
Over time, there have been very extraordinary, single types of firearms whose value has gone up significantly. Over that same period, there are dozens of other types whose value hasn’t. Taken in the grander scheme, they’re just not worth the risk.
Buy guns if you like them, but don’t delude yourself into thinking it is a great investment. Know that they are a comparatively poor investment when yardsticked against the other traditional methods of building a nestegg even if there is a “perfect storm” again in the future. You’d be much better served if you’d bought SWHC or RGR stock during the run-up to the election and the scare, as it has better value today than before the scare (not true for that AR you’ve owned since before the scare) and your RGR stock would have even paid you dividends.
I think this is the best advice you could take. A friend at work bought a Beretta 92FS back in '95 as an investment. It came with two 15rd magazines. He paid $650 and has never shot it. I just bought a new one for $530 out the door with two 15rd magazines. I have another friend who bought two AR-15’s in '94 for $1100 each. They were built using parts from various manufacturers. Needless to say, he’s still in the hole. On the other hand, I bought a Simson Suhl Makarov back in the late '90’s for $240. People thought that I was stupid because Bulgarian Makarovs could be purchased for $125. It turns out that this Simson Suhl Makarov is the key to the series. They go for over $1000 now. It really doesn’t matter though because I’m not selling anyway. I just buy what I like and let the chips fall where they may. Overall, I’d say my collection has increased in value, but not at the same rate the stock market has.
I think I did a poor job of articulating myself. I’ll try to make myself clearer without rehashing too much.
No doubt about it, the AK platform is great for what it is. That being said, people need to remember what it is. It’s a rifle that’s intended to be reliable, decently accurate, easy to use, and a BIG one, cheap/fast to make. The last one is a big one as it affects all the others.
Of course how much and how a weapon is used will affected it’s lifespan as well as it’s reliability; so will the way it’s treated by the user(s). A lot of the failures I’ve seen could be attributed to the abuse they’ve suffered.
My two biggest points that I tried to convey with my previous comments were: the internet has built the AK up to be the most reliable weapon on the field, and for some reason a lot of people gravitate towards making an AK as much like an AR as possible-which doesn’t make a lot of sense.
The disparity of reliability between to the two weapons isn’t nearly as great as the folklore would have us believe. Therefore, taking a gun from the 1940s (I realize the AR is from the 50’s) and slapping a bunch of modern, AR-esque stuff on it isn’t really a great expenditure of resources. You can put an Vltor stock on it, a modern handguard, and an Aimpoint, but it’s still an AK at heart and not an AR. It still is clunky, it’s still gut a yucky trigger, it’s still got a paddle mag release and rock in mags. The AR is the zenith of ergonomics. Putting AR stuff on it, enhances an AK, but it’s still not as good.
If you get an AK and leave it an AK then it’s a great gun to have. It’s sleek, it’s light and it points pretty well. It does a good job of sending rounds into a target, and does it cheaply. If you get an AK and slap another $1k or more of “upgrades” on it, it will certainly be enhanced, but it will fall short of the high end AR you could have purchased for the same amount of money. All those “enhancements” would negate the money you’d save buying cheap corrosive Cold War ammo.
Thanks for the input on the AK and great posts. I’m just wondering what was the approximate round count of the AKs you have seen fail at? Were most of the failures more related to user abuse and bad QC rather than the mechanical design of the system?
Arsenal listed their AK’s system life as 15K rounds (I assume system life means the entire gun would be junked after that round count. IIRC, removing the AK barrel requires a press, the Soviets believed it was easier to build new guns rather than do high echelon repairs during high intensity warfare and designed their weapons for planned obsolescence). Since you have a lot of experience with AKs, is that when the CHF barrel generally fails or do other components like the fire control group also fail at that round count or before then (assuming the AK was properly maintained and did not have QC issues)? Thanks.
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter as well. I picked up an SLR-105R around '06 for $450. I sold an old Mini-14 that was given to me as a gift to fund it, so the SLR didn’t cost me a dime. Now when you can find one they’re going for $1200 +.
Buy what you want, because that’s what you want and use it. If you want to invest, hire a financial consultant and give them a lot of cash… Life’s too short to redeem most investments anyhow… JMO…
I agree that guns make poor investments. A machine gun bought before 1986 would be a notable exception. However they do hold their value better than most other consumer goods. You can buy a gun, own and shoot it for years, then sell it for 80, 90% of what you paid, maybe more. That’s a great deal.
On the price of AKs, I think $500 is reasonable and I’ve paid that for many over the years. But I wouldn’t pay any more than that.
