Survival groups?

Preparation, Preparedness & Prevention Disaster Preparation & Planning
21

Read the book “Patriots,” and while it’s quite good for a novel and for giving you some considerations you may have overlooked in your own plan, it’s also quite implausible for most Americans.

CAUTION: SPOILERS CONTAINED WITHIN***

They just happened to luck into meeting each other early on enough in life to be close friends with all the same idea (preparation), and they had a decade to prepare with, as I can gather, fairly high paying jobs. Paying both the bills AND setting up what they did, I don’t think I could do in a decade.

As for the government trying to take an interest in those types, they really would have missed “the group” (the main characters) because, aside from running around their private property out of sight from everyone, they didn’t do anything “militia like” before the EOTWAWKI. They didn’t recruit, they didn’t seek attention, and they didn’t get politically involved. Realistically, I find the “Templars” group in the novel to be far less likely to have evaded detection, and would expect any such group in the real world to be at least somewhat monitored.

That, and I just don’t buy ragtag guys with guns being able to push out the black helicopter invading types entirely out of the US, and then going on to “free” Canada and start in Europe. I’d see maybe CONUS, maybe but more likely just regionalized sections of the US.

END SPOILERS**

Moving to the real world…

In my current situation, I have little say in the matter. My only option is to BUG IN, and hope for the best.

As a current best practice (and a realistically affordable one), I try to keep on hand enough provisions to last a few weeks to perhaps a month, as even in non-EOTW scenarios it’s been shown to be prudent (natural disasters that shut down the grid for an unknown amount of time regionally, such as severe snowstorms, bad string of tornados, flooding, hurricanes, etc). Beyond that, I’m in trouble.

I live in a suburb of the Minneapolis-St.Paul metro area, so it would really, really suck to be caught in events like the ones depicted in the novel, but I really have nowhere to go. I’m a single guy, no wife/girlfriend and no kids. My parents live in the same metro area (so little advantage aside from pooling resources), and I wouldn’t trust any of my other extended family to do anything but suck down my supplies so they’re out on their own in my mind. The few friends I have that could do at least some good are in other states.

Lastly, the neighborhood. I consider myself an island here - the rest of these people’s idea of preparation is rolling out the welcome mat for FEMA/the National Guard. I’m quite sure my one month’s of stuff will look awfully tempting to any of them, even those who’d join an official neighborhood watch.

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The book “Patriots,” had some best case scenario stuff it. The fact that no one tried to bring their family or it was never even mentioned was unrealistic. I just can’t see them setting up a “group” and trained and stocked up; when the SHTF someone would bring their parents or sibling.
The insurgent part at the end was the part that was way off. With them doing that and keeping their “principles”, they would have been taken out much faster. The two methodologies are not compatible.

Overall it was a very good book and I really enjoyed reading it. I did like how he would go off and explain the different thing that they would do. It was like reading a How To book that had a story in it. I thought that was nicely done.

The most unrealistic part of the book was when the “GOV” took over Texas and Idaho fought them off, really? That is just delusional to think that. Everyone knows that Texas would have reformed the Republic and taken care of business long before any of that happened. Didn’t he see Jericho? That was reality. :sarcastic:

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If you read his survival manual, its almost verbatim from the book.
Or vice versa.

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i thought i had a plan until i had twins about a year and half ago. having a bug out bag is useless with them. there is no way i could move far with my kids or carry the amount of supplies it would take to keep us going long.
i figured it would be better to keep a bag in the truck so i can get to them. the area i live in is not bad given alot of people in my neighborhood are leo fire or ems. but still if SHTF that does not mean that i could trust any of them especially with my kids in the picture. luckly my parents and inlaws provide my child care so that gives me alittle peace of mind. but what would happen then i have no idea. the biggest problem there is both sets of parents are not thinking about what to do when SHTF.

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im not a fan of the book; i think its absolute garbage. that being said, im guessing that his little group had no immediate family, therefore had no one else to bring. perhaps one of the ‘requirements’ of being accepted to the group, in addition to being a blind sheep biblethumper, would be not to have any immediate family.

ive been saying that for a while. i made the mistake of reading his ‘how to survive TEOTWAWKI’ book first, then patriots. his ‘novel’ is literally the survival manual with a cheap story crammed into it.

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I read “How to Survive TEOTWAWKI”. That was a very good book. It has a great deal of knowledge in it. I have a copy of it with me here. I do agree that “Patriots” did read like a survival manual with a story in it. I enjoyed the book and could have done without the survival manual part; I was reading it to pass time here in the Stan.
I just finished the book “Lights Out” and thought that was a great book. I think it took a more realistic approach to the siltation that came about. It was just regular people doing their thing and how they came together and dealt with the crisis. It had some very good ideas in it and things that I had not thought about; doing more with little or nothing.

James Wesley, Rawles’ is a great writer of survival manuals and I read his Blog. I understand what he did with his novel; trying to combine learning and entertainment. The only part of the book I was not impressed with was the group themselves. I thought that it was unrealistic and might only apply to 5% of the people that do this stuff.

Unfortunately it does not help most of us answer the question about how to set up a group of our own.

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I’ve read both and while it was obvious Patriots was written not just for pure entertainment but also to educate, I still thought it was a descent entertaining read, keeping that understanding in mind. Was it as good as Vince Flynn’s “Term Limits” …no friggin way. Did I find everything 100% plausible? Of course not but I still enjoyed it. We can pick apart any book from Tom Clancy to Vince Flynn, and any movie for that matter. They all have unbelievable parts or dramatizations.

I don’t see the two books all that similar at all. They share the same genre “survival” but that’s about it. I refer to “How To Survive” frequently. I’m glad Rawles writes and has his blog.

p.s. a little off topic for a brief second…but if you haven’t read “term limits”…you must! It’s not a survival book but rather a political thriller, you won’t put it down til you’re done,at least I couldn’t. I read it in 2 days. Of all of Vince Flynn’s books this was his first and I still consider his best work. Simply awesome!

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I agree with this statement Doc. Though there are some hints on his blog if you read between the lines.

Like you said, the logistics and the reality for most people is just not there to have a setup like the one depicted. Just think of the buying of land aspect. What if one of the members loses a job and they can’t pay property taxes and maintenance?

Do you have to start kicking people out before TEOTW?

Tough decisions putting together a group.

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p.s. a little off topic for a brief second…but if you haven’t read “term limits”…you must! It’s not a survival book but rather a political thriller, you won’t put it down til you’re done,at least I couldn’t. I read it in 2 days. Of all of Vince Flynn’s books this was his first and I still consider his best work. Simply awesome![/QUOTE]

i have not read either of the other books listed but term limits is a outstanding book. as all of vince flynns books. i think it is a must read.

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Honestly I think the only viable solution to that question and the question of the thread is to look at “lights Out.” You’d need a dedicated housing development. It would have to be run like a co-op where the residents would have to vote on prospective home owners. Of course to do that you would probably have to amend most state’s realty laws.

So lets say I win the lottery, pay off the politicians I need to change the laws, and start the development of such a place. How many folks are willing to move across country to the shang-ra-la that I am building? How many folks are willing to root up their careers and move away from their extended families? Who is going to have the ability to afford such a move, especially with home prices continuing to decline and up to 1/4 of the population being upside down. I think that is your biggest obstacle.

I think the only viable solution is to search for others of a like mind and then purchase enough land and then build there. My guess is that you would be luck to get three other families at best.

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i agree the current economy being so poor. would make it very hard to create that kind of enviroment. even find a few like mind people who would buy land with you would be very hard.

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These are all valid points. I think that the entire idea of getting “like minded people” together is by far the most difficult part. The rest is not that hard; it is not easy it just takes some maneuvering. I have some land that is my ‘Hunting Property”. No house; that is going to take some time. It has a small prefab hunting shack on it, sleeps 6. It is not too bad. It does not cost too much and I do hunt on it. My family is also able to set aside $500 or so a month for my “guns, ammo, gear, and such”. That adds up fast. Do I have everything that I will need? No, but it is a good start. Will it take some time? Yes it will. Do I have a plan for my “group”? I am still working on that. I am kind of at a loss because of distance and the other hundreds of thing to take into consideration.

Don’t get me wrong about “Patriots”, I thoroughly enjoyed the book. I read it in about 5 days. Yes we can pick apart almost everything, but I think that the reason that it is on the “chopping block” now is because of the way it was written. By that I mean it is a work of fiction but at times it reads like a “how to” book. That is why it will receive more criticism then other books of fiction. As purely fiction it was a very good read.

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Even finding like minded people would be hard. I would be very leary about how they would act and react in sressfull times. especially when my family is involved. having a good budget also helps. unfortunately i dont have that luxury, and have to be very particular with what i buy and when.

The other problem is, I always hear people talking about going to the country and hunting and fishing to survive. Depending on how bad of scenario you are dealing with and current population in most areas. I think most animals and fish would be gone in a short period of time.

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Definately- not only with distance and money involved as others here have pointed out, but also the fact that most people these days seem to be getting increasingly retarded…:bad:

True-definately comes down to how it was formatted. And honestly, it really should have been one or the other. That’s the underlying problem I think a lot of folks have with it, is it really does neither style well. It’s not a real good, quality “how to” as from what I remember it really doesn’t go over to much stuff in actual useful detail (aside from gear lists). And honestly the fiction portion of it is pretty flat, and towards the end total BS (this from a guy who reads a LOT of over-the-top stuff). Which I think is partly the book falling victim to itself- ie, it wanted to be a ‘how to’ book, but ended up some sort of mutant hybrid that nobody wants to play with.
Do I hate it? No. And I’d like to someday read his other “how to” book and see if it differs as much as everyone says. I just don’t think this one quite worked out like (I hope) it was envisioned.

Seriously. Even now, a quick way to set people off is to mess with their family.
Throw yourself in with a group of them, add the usual bickering, multiply by the possibility of family members being sick, injured, killed, etc., divide by the fact that you never really know someone 'til the shtf, and you’re sitting on a powder keg…

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The experience I’ve had, is to what degree of like mindedness. I hear plenty of," if it all falls, I’m coming to your place. I understand that a move like that makes sense to my friends? as I’m well prepared.
I wonder if I have the control to say NO to someone who is unprepared and chose to do other thing other than to train and supply themselves.
Their showing up puts me and mine, who are well supplied, in a vulnerable position. It sounds doable now, but when people show up and are deperate, can I say “sorry”
A move to a prepared location only known to the really prepared group makes more sense.
One particular friend on many years responds with “I can shoot” does not understand there is so much more to it than the ability to hit a pop can, won’t spend the cash or time to learn to manuver while firing, or to function as an organized unit or any other useful training.
Just don’t know if I can say NO.
Is this a common consideration among prepared people?

36

Since reading Patriots I’ve been thinking about this topic a lot. I’m actually someone who enjoyed the hybrid style of the book and think it worked well to point out areas the reader should focus on and do more research about. Agree with others here, the end got pretty crazy!
I’ve been thinking a lot about the bugging out concept. My neighborhood is in the middle of a city with a large underserved population. It’s tactically indefensible. My neighbors are mostly liberal college professors since I live right near 2 major universities. If the SHTF, this is no place to stay. After reading Patriots I started buying more ammo. Not ridiculous quantities like in the book (how did they afford all that???) but more then the typical 50 rd box I kept around before. The weight of this stuff is staggering!! Between that and the diapers, wipes (you parents know what I’m talking about), and minimal food and water, there’s no way I could possibly bug out with 2 kids on foot. So the SUV rout it is - but where to go? Havn’t figured that out yet, but I did buy five 5-GAL gas cans (not that there’s room in the SUV to store them, or that I can afford to buy a roof rack). Patriots made me think about hardening my SUV, but with zero know-how and even less money, my ingenuity can only go so far.
I have Army buddies all over the country but they have families to tend to as well. I have brothers (also with babies) who live within 50 miles, but while they like guns and tacti-cool stuff, they own none. When I hint to them with “hey I found this Sig (or whatever) for a really great price, why don’t you buy it” they consistently turn me down. So, to the OP’s question, it’s tough to have these discussions without putting people off but getting them to do something even if they agree (beyond maybe stocking up on some extra bottled water) is really hard.
I’ll tell ya, as much as I learned from and enjoyed the Patriots book, I was annoyed by this “theme” or “message” that survival should be your main priority in life. You know, with kids, bills, cars that break down, homes that need repair, saving for college, gas prices, and cloths-washer and home HVAC electronic circuits [or insert any product you want here] being made in China and breaking within weeks of installation / purchase, it’s difficult for me (and I’m sure others) to prioritize and to justify to my wife (let alone family members) spending money on shelf-stable food, ammo, gas cans, water cans, and other survival stuff. This stuff isn’t easy, so it’s hard to think about others who don’t bother then depending on you in a SHTF scenario.

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Sorry about the rant. Kinda felt good to vent.

38

This subject is the toughest part to figure out. It sounds like we have quite a few NC guys thinking this way. That is a good.

Right now, I plan on my brother, his wife, my parents and my family. Maybe my best buddy and his Dr. wife. A doctor could come in handy if she can handle the stress. My Dad has 20 acres and thick concrete walls downstairs, located near a river for water.
Too close to Durham for my taste but it is a start.

Plus, they better start stocking up!

39

Myself and 2 friends get together monthly to discuss our plan. One of the guys lives about 15 miles away from me on about 15 acres. If it gets bad and there’s time, I’m burning rubber for his place. It’s well stocked up by all of us. We all bought similar weapons (same mags/caliber) for each family member. We each research, fund, & provide different goods/supplies to the pot. With wives & kids, there are 13 heads in our group.

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Do you mind if I ask what State you are in?