"Survival" fitness

Preparation, Preparedness & Prevention Fitness and Nutrition
1

So there was a post elsewhere on M4C recently regarding physical fitness and hand-to-hand skills. While the post was rude and off topic, I wanted to see if we could re-kindle this discussion.

I maintain, and have always maintained, that maintaining a healthy lifestyle to include eating healthy/properly and getting at least some amount of physical exercise is more important, to a huge degree, than any fighting skills. I consider it to be a Hierarchy of Survivalism ™. Much like Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs where base physiological needs (air, food, water, sleep, etc.) must be met before the higher needs of safety, belonging, esteem, and self-actualization can be addressed, the factors or threats that are most likely to end one’s life should be addressed before those that are less likely.

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention has a very interesting page on the Leading Causes of Death in Males, United States, 2004.

The basic, generic, average information is as follows, in order (the number is the percentage of deaths attributed to that cause):
All Males, All Ages

  1. Heart disease 27.2
  2. Cancer 24.3
  3. Unintentional injuries 6.1
  4. Stroke 5.0
  5. Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5.0
  6. Diabetes 3.0
  7. Influenza and pneumonia 2.3
  8. Suicide 2.2
  9. Kidney disease 1.7
  10. Alzheimer’s disease 1.6

Note that there is no mention of violent encounter. The CDC terms deaths caused by others as “Homicide” so it’s very easy to track. Note that Homicide is not even in the top 10.

As one scrolls down the page you will see a further breakdown by race/ethnicity. But what is really interesting is if you click on the .pdf links they give you a breakdown by race and age so that one can see where you fall much more narrowly. This tells a much better tale, and there are many interesting conclusions we can come to based on this information.

These statistics are only one part of the equation however. Hopefully it goes without saying that one should eat well and get some exercise, and reduce the excess weight they carry around. This isn’t just about long-term health but short-term enjoyment of life, but physical fitness is also related to one’s ability to fight off infection, disease, and violent encounter as well as to recover from same. Other than arguments about a bullet having a hard time getting to the vitals of a larger man, I think that it goes without saying that there are benefits to leading a healthy lifestyle.

I’m curious in hearing others take on all of this. Are you into fitness and health as well as shooting and fighting? Do you ignore fitness and health but still focus on fighting? Do you think that they are entirely unrelated? and why do you have the opinions that you do? Are you “pro health” simply because you’re naturally thin and in truth get no more exercise or eat any better than the 300lb guy? Do you ignore the health aspect simply because you lack self-control and the momentary happiness you get from a twinkie is more important than your long-term survival? And regardless of which camp you are in, how do you reconcile your actions with your beliefs/opinions?

2

I remember reading where race played some part in the results. Black Males suffer from higher percentages of heart disease and so forth.

I think as a nation we have moved away from manual labor to “mental labor”. We are less active and stress plays more into why we get sick. If you are using your body to make a living and not sitting behind a computer you have a better active lifestyle than someone who sits in a cubby hole for 8 to 12 hours a day.

3

Thanks for posting this.

I’m no warrior, probably will never need to be one. I’m just an outdoorsman, hunter, hiker, and camper who recently started building his first AR.

But I have to say that I’ve never seen anything quite as silly as the photos of obese students in tactical training classes–all kinds of battle gear and weaponry draped over tubs of lard.

I would think that the first tactical advantage would be to be fit and not fat.

(FWIW I have to watch my weight constantly and believe that self-discipline in one area carries over to other areas and can be strengthened by exercising the will–forget the pills and fad diets; just eat less as a way of life and enjoy the results!)

4

I agree. The irony in these photos is amazing. Here these people are, training for what one day may be a life and death scenario; but their so fat and out of shape that they couldn’t do a dash to the 100yd line with out suffering a massive heart attack. They’re training to save their lives should they ever need to use a gun, yet they’re far more likely to die an early death from being obese. And thats just the beginning. The above type of people are armchair warriors living out a dream getting to play dress up and play with their high dollar rifles doing drills.

Truth of the matter is, if the S ever HTF, these people, despite all their super tactical training from high dollar instructors; would be sitting ducks because they wouldn’t be able to make it from their gun safe to the stop sign at the front of their driveway with out running out of breath, much less with 40lbs of shit on them.

If in a gun fight, I’d much rather be able to run a 200yd dash in 30sec with 40lbs of gear on me than have all sorts of cool guy tactical training. both would be even better…

5

Im the same as the poster above. Im into being in the outdoors, many facets of it. Being fit or healthy is part of my lifestyle, shooting is my hobby. Im sure my POV would vary if I was mil, leo or shot as a trade. I can only assume that if I was, they would be amplified; as it would be a factor in the equation of my situational survival.

I am pro-health partly because I have been in sports since I was young. I suppose it just seems natural to want to exercise 5 times a week as i did in school. I ran cross country and swam. I run daily since I adhere to stamina over brute strength. I do watch what I eat, but that didnt start until I turned about 27. I wouldnt say it was because of weight gain; but because I believe that these days I intake far too many hormones, preservatives, and artificial garbage that is slowly trying to pull me under. I always tell my wife when we have our first child, we are going to eat all organic and a menu similar to that of the 1950’s. I guess im lucky that I have a salty tooth rather than a sweet one, so im not into deserts. Not to digress on my diet.
Yes, they are directly related, and if you dont exercise but go shoot every weekend and throw knives at your fence thinking your gtg; well brother, if “the most annoying acronym” ever comes to materialize, I will give my regards to your family.

6

I’m totally with you on this one.

7

My take would that if you are going to be serious, or at least taken serious, about your desire to hone your “battle skills” you should address all facets, armed and unarmed. This applies equally to professionals as well as the private Citizen. A personal fitness program along with some type of unarmed combat training really should not be as complex as most people try to make them out to be. Adding this to the firearms training that you do now, or at least should be doing, can only enhance that skill set that you are trying to master. Rather than trying to overcomplicate a basic fitness and self defense training regimen, concentrate on the basics and get good at that. Any martial arts, personal trainer, or firearms trainer will echo that same concept. You need to identify your needs then find a way to work it in with your work, home, and personal/play time. The bottom line is that if you keep it simple and fun it should stay as something you look forward to doing, even get excited for. A training partner (or partners) of the same skill level help also.

8

I start the seminars do i for LEO by pointing out that you wear a vest to prevent getting shot and go to the range (hopefully…) to shoot, but cardio vascular disease is what’s likely to get you, so…This may not be a tacti-cool topic, but statistically speaking, Atherosclerosis is what kills most LEOs. It’s the number one killer in the US, and LEOs suffer higher rates then the general public*, so staying in shape is essential to both short term and long term survival.

I’m always amazed at how out of shape the shooters are at the range, IDPA matches, courses I take, etc. It never fails to amaze me.

Obviously, the connection to overall fitness (e.g., GPP), not related to MA skills, shooting skills, etc is directly related to your ability to perform under stress and survive. As you go up the food chain in tactical/combat shooters, you will also note they tend to be in top condition. There are no fat slow guys at LA PD SWAT, or DevGru, or FBI HRT, etc. and there’s a reason for that…

  • = In studies looking at higher rates of CVD in the LEO population, even when they adjust for the “usual suspects” which is smoking, lack of exercise, and diet, they still suffer higher rates. They attribute that to the stress.
9

Fitness is a risk factor that can be controlled, but it’s not the only one. If the most annoying acronym does occur, people are going to start dropping weight in a hurry, but a lot of “fat bodies” are still going to survive the pocaclypse. You don’t need to be in SeAL/HRT conditioning to survive. You mostly need to be smart. I’m definitely overweight, but have low blood pressure and low cholesterol. Not everyone is going to be, nor needs to be, a SWAT guy.

Go out and exercise regularly in a moderate way, eat healthy foods that you enjoy. You’ll do much more good then trying to get all butch and try a diet and exercise program that you’re not going to be able to maintain. While I don’t see a lot of fat guys in SWAT type outfits, I do see fat guys who used to be. That level of fitness is not sustainable for them, let alone most people here.

Tactical/Survival fitness is all well and good, but no guarantee that you won’t die of CVD…or of a hole in your head. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx

Something else to consider is that increasingly it’s becoming clear that true fitness comes from living an active lifestyle, meaning you are physically active during your daily routine. “Working out” might actually be counter-productive for most people. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857,00.html

10

I find this logic fatally flawed.

Obviously the person with the healthiest lifestyle can drop dead of a heart attack right in the middle of running. But it doesn’t mean that being in shape is bad, and it’s a truly ironic stance for anyone to take who is preparing for something (violent attack) that in and of itself is so unlikely to happen as to be statistically insignificant. In 2005 just under 17k people died of Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter out of a total population of just under 300M (source). Of that 17k, approximately 8k were black (source).

Not to mention the fact that a heightened sense of awareness, modification of basic behaviors, and limitations on traveling to dangerous areas or locations are FAR bigger determining factors as to whether or not you are likely to be murdered or otherwise assaulted than any “running and gunning” skills learned at the latest training class.

If we’re going to take the fatalistic “even skinny healthy guys die of hear attacks so I’m just going to be big and fat” approach, then certainly “preparing” for a death that is even less likely is silly at best.

11

Maybe not, depending on what level you’re referring to, but I’m of the belief that it takes a lot more effort to be obese than it does to be thin. Forget activity levels for a minute and look strictly at excess body weight. To walk around at 300 lbs you have to WORK to maintain that level of fat. Your body does not just naturally balloon up. To build a house you need bricks and to build fat you need food.

If you go from an active lifestyle to a sedentary one, you have to adjust your intake. If you get older and your body metabolism slows down, you need to reduce your intake. Getting, and maintaining, even 50 lbs over where you should be takes a huge amount of effort. It’s mental laziness, not physical, since that person chooses not to think about what they are eating, but it is way more work than taking in the right amount (and the right kind) of food to maintain a healthy weight.

12

Didn’t say it was. Give another read.

The point was that what you have between your ears is going to be a larger factor in survival than whether you have a gut.

It’s always a little amusing that skinny guys think it’s about being “lazy”. I know a lot of “fat bodies” who work for hours trying to control their weight with counter-productive results. It’s not about lazy, but like firearms, one size of exercise program does not work for all. Having a gut doesn’t mean you’re out of shape anymore than not having one means you in shape…it’s simply a “risk factor”.

People would do well to understand that “risk factor” doesn’t mean something will happen. It only means that when taken over the sum total of a whole population, those with a gut have a higher risk of problems, not that a particular individual will.

13

survival of what? Armageddon? A fist fight? A gun fight? A cheeseburger?

It’s always a little amusing that skinny guys think it’s about being “lazy”. I know a lot of “fat bodies” who work for hours trying to control their weight with counter-productive results. It’s not about lazy, but like firearms, one size of exercise program does not work for all. Having a gut doesn’t mean you’re out of shape anymore than not having one means you in shape…it’s simply a “risk factor”.

I see a “gut” as a mindset indicator. And a “gut” on someone that is spending thousands of dollars a year on guns, range time, ammo, barrels full of rice, training classes, etc. is an indicator of a pretty screwy mindset IMHO.

FWIW, it’s also equally amusing when fat guys think that skinny guys are that way with zero effort. I have a fat friend who, every time we go to dinner with the group, delights in saying “hey you guys, look at what the skinny guy is eating”. Hmm, maybe that should be a clue as you scarf down two appetizers, an entree with 2-3 sides, and a desert to my one breadless sandwich with a side of vegetables or rice. Or how about my breakfast of yogurt, a hard boiled egg, a granola bar, and a banana to yours of three pancakes two fried eggs four pieces of bacon…

People would do well to understand that “risk factor” doesn’t mean something will happen.

No, it doesn’t. But it is the height of silliness to ignore an extremely likely potential cause of death and instead prepare for one that is so unlikely as to be statistically insignificant.

It would be like driving to the gun range to go practice your self-defense skills while doing 95 on the interstate weaving in and out of traffic with no seatbelt on and your 8th beer in the last 2 hours wedged in your crotch.

14

Spoken like a really skinny dude. :slight_smile: I know you mean well, but I’m guessing it’s not something you’ve ever had to worry about. Yes you may put in effort, but that effort yields results that not everyone gets. People have different metabolisms, that’s not even controversial to state.

Willbrink said that one doesn’t see fat guys in HRT type groups and while that’s certainly true, we’re not HRT types. That’s why I referred to them. I

Obese is a specific criteria. Many people are overweight/out of shape without being obese. Even if you’re obese, it doesn’t mean you’re going to die on fire either.

The variables are so many here that making simple, pat overreaching conclusions are somewhat simplistic.

Yes, eat less and move more, but it’s unrealistic that we’re all going to become welterweights.

15

Yes.

I see a “gut” as a mindset indicator. And a “gut” on someone that is spending thousands of dollars a year on guns, range time, ammo, barrels full of rice, training classes, etc. is an indicator of a pretty screwy mindset IMHO.

So those people should stop training and get in shape before they are qualified to stand on the line with you?

FWIW, it’s also equally amusing when fat guys think that skinny guys are that way with zero effort. I have a fat friend who, every time we go to dinner with the group, delights in saying “hey you guys, look at what the skinny guy is eating”. Hmm, maybe that should be a clue as you scarf down two appetizers, an entree with 2-3 sides, and a desert to my one breadless sandwich with a side of vegetables or rice. Or how about my breakfast of yogurt, a hard boiled egg, a granola bar, and a banana to yours of three pancakes two fried eggs four pieces of bacon…

I also see skinny guys put away large pizzas with extra pepperoni, while I do everything I can to eat right, cook my own food. I don’t eat junk or soda but no matter what I do, there is only so much weight I’m going to lose.

No, it doesn’t. But it is the height of silliness to ignore an extremely likely potential cause of death and instead prepare for one that is so unlikely as to be statistically insignificant.

Who said anything about ignoring anything?

It would be like driving to the gun range to go practice your self-defense skills while doing 95 on the interstate weaving in and out of traffic with no seatbelt on and your 8th beer in the last 2 hours wedged in your crotch.

Uhm no. Sorry but to compare it to such recklessness is more than a bit silly.

16

I see very few even try.

17

So now this makes more sense. You’re taking it personally because you yourself are overweight and have convinced yourself that there’s nothing you can do about it. Gotcha.

18

Look, this has nothing to do with who’s qualified to stand on a line with me, or train with me, or whatever. I don’t frankly give a damn if fat bastard drops dead on the drive home from a coronary as long as he is physically able to keep up with the class and not slow things down or knows when things are beyond his limitations and takes himself off the line.

But…

Excuses and attempts at side-tracking the discussion aside, I’m still wondering why one would spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours preparing for something that is statistically unlikely to happen and ignore something that is statistically much more likely to kill them.

I have never, ever, spent any amount of time with a person that weighs 50lbs more than what they clearly should who also maintains anything close to a healthy diet and gets even so much as a shred of exercise. Maybe these people exist (they must because I meet them on the internet every time this discussion comes up, them and the ones with the “gland problems”), but I haven’t seen them.

19

withdrawn.

20

My point was only that conditioning plays an essential role in the ability of your top of the food chain combat shooters. It may simply be they can run away faster and farther, or drag a wounded person, carry loads, recoup faster from stress, etc., but higher up the food chain you go, the more emphasis on physical conditioning you will see, in addition to the other more obvious stuff. For the average person, physical performance can play a critical part of your survival in a confrontation, or other.

Again, only using extreme examples, and I am not in top tier SWAT condition either at 44 I assure you! Age, physical restrictions, etc all have to be factored in. It’s a matter of staying in the best condition you can under your own set of circumstances.

There are no guarantees in any of it, it’s about reducing the risk factors as best you can. but control them (ergo, greatly reduce you risk of CVD) you can. Life is 100% fatal, 100% of the time, in 100% of the people, so we’re all going that way, like or not. It’s an issue of stacking the deck in your favor for both functional healthy longevity or being able to physically deal with what life throws at you, which may include having run away from a BG, etc.

It is a simple fact that those who ignore their physical conditioning as part of their overall strategy to deal with potential threats (1) do so at their own peril (2) are a liability to those who know it’s an essential part of the keep-my-ass-alive equation.

Good luck.