So I got one of Surefire’s catalogs and saw their “New for 2010” item, RAID series weapon lights. I did a search here and came up with nothing, and Google search and came up with this http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/01/20/surefire-raid-weaponlight-if-the-x300-and-scout-light-mated/
I was wondering if anyone on this board has had personal experience with one? If so, thoughts? Pros/Cons? Etc…
Still vaporware. It’s in the 2011 catalog though. SF has a tendency to introduce products that never make it to the market.
Sometimes priorities shift due to contracts and the like.
What is the point of SF showing up at SHOT show every year, with a catalog of vapor?
Half of the things shown last year, have never made it to the market. If SF wants LE/Mil input, why not conduct that research in private, with users directly?
Showing off fully fleshed out products in glossy, expensive to produce photos and catalogs, then not delivering them at all, makes SF look quite bad.
Heck, they haven’t even been able to get the LX1 out; the most hotly demanded flashlight in the civilian flashlight world, and a relatively simple modification to an existing platform.
I am actually amazed at the amount of people that get butt hurt because the latest Magpul vibrator or whatever hasn’t been released.
Spending has changed and all companies are refocusing products.
Wow…
Note- I am NOT an executive or a business major. The following is from the trenches as I see it-
Here is the juice. The reason we show things at SHOT, like every other company out there, is to generate interest. That interest, drives our planning process. The 720V we showed last year was no different (I was there). It caught the interest of the US Government (to not put too fine a point on it) which is our biggest customer and the ones who will buy the most lights. They asked us (I say “us” as if I had something to do with it) to change some things. Sometimes changing things takes a while and then they have to be tested by both us AND them. In this case, it did take some time. In this capacity, we won a large contract.
At the end of the day, it’s quite logical. Here is an example (not official in any way shape or form)- You want a particular new light, the way it is RIGHT NOW, along with 350 of your buddies. The DOD wants a (fill in the blank) long contract worth (fill in the huge number of dollars) if we change the LED to purple. We will probably pull the light, and spend the time to change the color to purple. We upset 350guys to make thousands happy. Again, that is just an exaggerated example for clarification purposes.
What happened with the LX1 was more simple. When we showed it last year, the point was that it was a duel out put light, One battery, with 110 lumens as the higher out put. At the time, the E1B was had duel out put, but only 80 lumens in the high mode. The E1B is now 110 lumens in the high mode, so it fits the requirement. It is one of our hottest selling lights. We shift assets to what sells.
Kind of like every other company in the business.
Hope that makes sense.
Thank you for the clarification. You can’t please everyone, some people will always bitch about something, they will find a reason.
I will keep buying SF lights. There are so many different and versatile models that there is one for every imaginable need. I have 6 SureFires already, and I plan on buying an LX2 before I deploy. And when I go home I’m buying Scout Lights for my rifles and an X300 for my 1911. I have no use for something like the 720V but I’m sure it is a fine product if it wears the SureFire name.
Matt-
Thanks for the info on the 720V. Can you say what changes were made and/or when it might be available? Thanks.
Note- I am NOT an executive or a business major. The following is from the trenches as I see it-
I want you to know that this isn’t some personal screed against you or what you do at SF.
Here is the juice. The reason we show things at SHOT, like every other company out there, is to generate interest. That interest, drives our planning process.
So, SF is basically showing off prototype concepts at SHOT. The trouble is, the SF marketing department doesn’t present items shown at SHOT as prototypes; they get displayed, promoted and publicized as catalog products that will be coming out in 2011. Hell, you all even print a glossy ass catalog with expensive promotional photography to make that point.
Why not generate interest amongst the select group of customers these products are intended for behind your booth? To say nothing of SF’s everyday working relationship with these guys. I am not asking that in a snarky way; but doesn’t SF understand how it makes them look to second tier purchasers (civilians, LE departments, small military units making their own purchases who don’t have big suction with SF) when stuff is printed in a glossy catalog that never gets made?
What happened with the LX1 was more simple. When we showed it last year, the point was that it was a duel out put light, One battery, with 110 lumens as the higher out put. At the time, the E1B was had duel out put, but only 80 lumens in the high mode. The E1B is now 110 lumens in the high mode, so it fits the requirement. It is one of our hottest selling lights. We shift assets to what sells.
The point of the LX1 is that it has a far better and more advanced switching method than the E1B. I carry an E1B every day and would love to not have to click through the 110 lumen high mode (which I use only about 25% of the time). Go to CPF and you’ll find a few hundred people who have been waiting for the LX1 with zero explanation of where it is and why it has been vapor for well over a year now. The fact that it is a product that basically already exists (LX1) and one component different from one already on the shelves just makes people more frustrated.
No, you can’t please all the people all the time. This is true. But you CAN communicate to the customer base and let them know WTF is going on. Showing up at SHOT with a wiz-bang catalog, not introducing 50% of what is in new in that catalog and not saying anything to your customers as to why is a recipe for frustration.
Finally, none of this would matter if SureFire products were not fantastic. Hell, Fenix can pre-announce a 1 cell, 3000 lumen light with a 4 hour runtime and never release it for all I care. =)
“Why not generate interest amongst the select group of customers these products are intended for behind your booth?”
And that DOES happen, more then you know, but that TTP is not without holes and pitfalls.
I think one of the other guys hit it on the head. We can’t please everyone all the time.
If you have questions about what is going on a SureFire, ask them. There are guys that get paid to answer those questions. The 1-800 # is on the website below.
Look, I’m not trying to be all butt hurt, but come on… The whole point of a catalog is that you are marketing products that people can (or will soon) be able to actually purchase.
Right now, I’m running a Fenix TK40 and I use the hell out of that POS light. Last month, I damn near bought an M3LT; but decided to hold off to find out what was happening at SHOT. Low and behold, not only has the M3LT moved to 600 lumens, but now there is the M6LT on the table and a bunch of wicked cool rechargeable.
So as a customer who is investing a non-insignificant amount of money, what am I supposed to do? We all get that stuff gets upgraded, but why would I buy an M3LT when the catalog has upgraded products in it that may or may not ever come into reality?
So, between you and me, how much of the 2011 catalog is vapor? How can I know I am spending my $400+ for a flashlight that isn’t already obsolete?
Here’s an excerpt from their (SureFire LLC) website and more than likely printed on their catalogs too:
Rhetorical question: What’s that indicative of? I’m sure the terms are not just limited and all inclusive to just SureFire LLC. but other manufacturers as well.
“So, between you and me, how much of the 2011 catalog is vapor? How can I know I am spending my $400+ for a flashlight that isn’t already obsolete?”
The only products that I can’t be sure of, are the ones not out yet because I do not own, nor was I issued a “Ball, Crystal MK 1”.
As far as being concerned weather or not what you buy today will be obsolete next year…that is a possibility no matter what you purchase.
I don’t think our marketing guys (of which I am not one, lets make that clear if not already) would be upset at me for saying that we will continue to try and stay on the leading edge of technology.
Thanks for your interest.
I think that this thread has outlived it’s usefulness.